Top 10 PGs of All-Time

[a.k.a baller]

John Stockton should be 3rd and Kevin Johnson should be ahead of Jason Kidd if you ask me, rest are solid.

exactly

[Showtime]

Rank them however you want, but I would take probably 15-20 other point guards before I took Nash if I wanted to win. Make of that what you will.

[GP_20]

Rank them however you want, but I would take probably 15-20 other point guards before I took Nash if I wanted to win. Make of that what you will.

I'd probably would respect Nash at #20 more than I would respect Goodrich at #10.

[Niquesports]

Rewind since when the hell is Bob Cousy better than John Stockton

WHen wasnt he.

[Niquesports]

Also to add to Tiny Archibald, it's not just that he didn't make playoffs very often in his prime.

Only once in his prime was he on a team that didn't have a losing season.
All the numbers, and whatever you put in during your prime, really don't mean much. Because they were on horrible teams. It's like we are comparing Durant and Granger's statlines with Kobe and Carmelo, and declaring Durant/Granger better. Not only that, it's a widely known fact that Tiny dominated the ball very much, which gave him better stats, but prevented his teammates from contributing. No wonder he missed playoffs.

How is leading the league in assist preventing your team from contributing. Tiny like iverson really had no choice but to control the ball who was he gonna pass to Sam Lacy? It might not have been his peek but he was a pretty good PG with the Celtics in there run also

[Niquesports]

Also I love how stupid some posters on ISH are. They rank Tiny in Top 10. Either they don't know he has led his team to a winning record just once in his prime, or either they have some major double standards.

If they rank Tiny in Top 10, taking his statistics and ignoring the fact that he has been on a losing team in his prime all but once, then I better see them rank players like Bosh over KG, Al Jefferson over Duncan, Granger over Carmelo. Yes thats how brilliant ranking Tiny in top 10 is.

Has Bosh ever lead the league in scoring
has Jefferson ever lead the league in assist
Has Granger come back in the twilight of his career and lead a team to 2 title?
Not as silly as it seems when you look at the facts

[GP_20]

How is leading the league in assist preventing your team from contributing. Tiny like iverson really had no choice but to control the ball who was he gonna pass to Sam Lacy? It might not have been his peek but he was a pretty good PG with the Celtics in there run also

Well when you have the ball 24/7...Yeah it was kind of like Iverson's situation.

Either way, if you are not making playoffs and finishing on losing teams every year, you can't take your statistics seriously.

Out of his prime he had a good run. But when comparing players, you should obviously compare their prime years.

[GP_20]

Has Bosh ever lead the league in scoring
has Jefferson ever lead the league in assist
Has Granger come back in the twilight of his career and lead a team to 2 title?
Not as silly as it seems when you look at the facts

And who are you comparing Bosh to? A falling down KG? We are comparing Tiny to All-Time great PGs.

So it's not important for Bosh to have Tiny's accomplishments, just like its not important for KG to play at a level of an All-Time great PG.

But the comparison is valid if you get the point. Just like we discount the statistics of Bosh, Granger, and Jefferson when compared to players on winning teams, Tiny should receive the same treatment.

And it's not like Tiny led the league in scoring and passing every year. I'm looking at his prime as a whole. Only once did he not finish in a losing team. So no need to point out single seasons.

[Niquesports]

Yes both were great defenders. But at the end of the day, the number one duty of a PG is to pass the ball. Frazier averaged more than 7apg only twice in his career, while Payton eclipsed that mark 9 times.

Payton also got stronger arguments for being the better defender. But yeah, pretty close.

Scoring wise, it's pretty close as well.


At the end of the day, 2 rings (0 Finals MVPs) versus, better passing (most important for a PG) and much much greater longevity/durability. You realize Frazier played 15 games after the age of 32? Payton was an All-Star at age 33. I think that speaks volumes. Frazier, just didn't have the longevity of a player like Payton. That and passing make up the "team" arguments Frazier has for himself.

IF you want to base it on longevity I woujld argue but if you want to base it on Peek I have to go with Frazier
IF you want to discuss Fraziers apg. You cant compare the two. Frazier shared PG duties with Monroe and the Knicks as a whole were one of the best passing teams ever so its not like with Payton when all the set up plays were designed for him.
At the end of the day in the big games Frazier out performs payton

[GP_20]

IF you want to base it on longevity I woujld argue but if you want to base it on Peek I have to go with Frazier
IF you want to discuss Fraziers apg. You cant compare the two. Frazier shared PG duties with Monroe and the Knicks as a whole were one of the best passing teams ever so its not like with Payton when all the set up plays were designed for him.
At the end of the day in the big games Frazier out performs payton

Payton also had to share duties at PG with Nate McMillan. Detlef also was a great passer. Monroe never averaged more than 4apg while playing with Frazier in Walt's prime. I know he had other teammates too, but I was just pointing out that Payton too had to share PG duties.

[Niquesports]

Well when you have the ball 24/7...Yeah it was kind of like Iverson's situation.

Either way, if you are not making playoffs and finishing on losing teams every year, you can't take your statistics seriously.

Out of his prime he had a good run. But when comparing players, you should obviously compare their prime years.

To say its Tiny's fault that the Kings didnt make the playoffs is just silly he had no support cast you just cant compare the teams KJ and Nash played with to the team Tiny played with

Well Oscar didnt win his title in his prime years also TIny made a bigger impact coming into the league than KJ and Nash does that count

[Niquesports]

And who are you comparing Bosh to? A falling down KG? We are comparing Tiny to All-Time great PGs.

So it's not important for Bosh to have Tiny's accomplishments, just like its not important for KG to play at a level of an All-Time great PG.

But the comparison is valid if you get the point. Just like we discount the statistics of Bosh, Granger, and Jefferson when compared to players on winning teams, Tiny should receive the same treatment.

And it's not like Tiny led the league in scoring and passing every year. I'm looking at his prime as a whole. Only once did he not finish in a losing team. So no need to point out single seasons.

Compare Tiny's peek season to KJ's and Nash neither can match Tiny.
ALso are you ranking the PG based on career or prime. IF Prime TIny again out perfroms the others
Ok Nash miss the playoffs this year Rondo makes it is he better than Nash?
Rafel Austin makes the playoffs Devin Harris doesnt ?
you cant just say this player didnt make the playoffs he must not have made a impact without taking into considerstion that players supporting cast.

[GP_20]

Compare Tiny's peek season to KJ's and Nash neither can match Tiny.
ALso are you ranking the PG based on career or prime. IF Prime TIny again out perfroms the others
Ok Nash miss the playoffs this year Rondo makes it is he better than Nash?
Rafel Austin makes the playoffs Devin Harris doesnt ?
you cant just say this player didnt make the playoffs he must not have made a impact without taking into considerstion that players supporting cast.

I'm comparing their careers. Which primarily weighs how they did in their primes.
And I'm not talking about "this year" or "a year".


Tiny Archibald finished on a losing year every year besides once in his prime.

Nash has obviously been to the playoffs most years, and Harris and Alston aren't comparable players. Harris has much better statistics, is an All-Star caliber player, etc. Alston is a role player. Come on, don't use the Horry argument.


Tiny Archibald's 34/11 came in a season where they finished 36-46 and missed playoffs. Seriously, what is the point of your great season if you miss playoffs? Does it matter at all?



But yeah it's not 1 season, it's his whole prime. In which he was also traded 3 times. I wonder why? He had 3 different situations, but the same result. It's Tiny that should be blamed.

[daily]

John Stockton should be 3rd and Kevin Johnson should be ahead of Jason Kidd if you ask me, rest are solid.

Stockton couldn't dictate the game, he played great within the framework of the system but he was not a great freelance make it up as you go along level player. Take away Malone, take away the pick and roll and he's a lesser PG. He's a top 10 but not a top 3 by any stretch.

[GP_20]

Stockton couldn't dictate the game, he played great within the framework of the system but he was not a great freelance make it up as you go along level player. Take away Malone, take away the pick and roll and he's a lesser PG. He's a top 10 but not a top 3 by any stretch.

Exactly