Is Oscar Robertson the most overrated player in NBA history?!

[lakers_forever]

Oscar's PER in the great triple double season: 27.6

Apparently the greatest statistical achievement in NBA history couldn't even match Kobe's 35 ppg season.

To be clear, steals, blocks and turnovers weren't counted. However, this probably helps Oscar as most ballhandling guards average more turnovers than steals (even true for Jordan who always led the league in steals), so it's not hurting him by any means.

No one is dissing the era but these stats really need to be looked at in context and pace needs to be factored in. If we are not doing that then nearly every major player in the 60s has a statistical case to be GOAT over Jordan.

No SPG and BPG hurts his PER. Anyway I hate that crap. Fock PER

[Kingwillball]

Why is he ranked over Moses, Kobe, Dr. J, West or even players like Barkley and Robinson who had more statistically impressive seasons (which I am assuming is the only reason he is even in the top 10)?

Pace adjusted his stats are NOT better than almost all of these players.

He led his team to 50+ wins just once in his career.

Won only one championship as arguably the third fiddle on a team led by Kareem.

Can we stop including him in any top 10 lists? Top 20 is more appropriate. He is in the same class as Barkley, Malone, Robinson and probably at the lower end of it too.

he is better than Kobe that is for sure.

[Kingwillball]

oscar robertson is overated the only thing that is spectaculer was average a triple double a whole season

do u even read your posts before u submit them ?

[Peter Griffin]

Oscar's PER in the great triple double season: 27.6

Apparently the greatest statistical achievement in NBA history couldn't even match Kobe's 35 ppg season.

To be clear, steals, blocks and turnovers weren't counted. However, this probably helps Oscar as most ballhandling guards average more turnovers than steals (even true for Jordan who always led the league in steals), so it's not hurting him by any means.

No one is dissing the era but these stats really need to be looked at in context and pace needs to be factored in. If we are not doing that then nearly every major player in the 60s has a statistical case to be GOAT over Jordan.

But at the same time, we can't just blame him for putting up crazy numbers in a fast pace era, because, what about the players he played against?! Why didn't any of them avg a triple double or the GOAT all-round game like him? Hundreds of players in his decade, yet he's the only one playing at that level?! We should just leave, pace, number of teams, height, rules, alone and just flat out rank what they have done on black and white paper and call it a day!

[meh]

He is the only guy to ever avg a triple double!

This is the biggest reason why he's overrated.

If the NBA today played as freely and loosely as they do in the Robertson era, players like Lebron and Kidd would also be having triple-double seasons.

[BlazersDozen]

Dan Marino...Most overrated of all time?

GTFO

[Gifted Mind]

He was the most overrated. But if you guys keep this up, he'll be one of the most underrated.


Bill Russell called Oscar Robertson the "GOAT".

[phoenix18]

But at the same time, we can't just blame him for putting up crazy numbers in a fast pace era, because, what about the players he played against?! Why didn't any of them avg a triple double or the GOAT all-round game like him? Hundreds of players in his decade, yet he's the only one playing at that level?! We should just leave, pace, number of teams, height, rules, alone and just flat out rank what they have done on black and white paper and call it a day!

Exactly. He played against Wilt,Russell,West,Baylor and many others. No one did it before and no one has done it since. How does that make him overrated?

[Fatal9]

But at the same time, we can't just blame him for putting up crazy numbers in a fast pace era, because, what about the players he played against?! Why didn't any of them avg a triple double or the GOAT all-round game like him? Hundreds of players in his decade, yet he's the only one playing at that level?! We should just leave, pace, number of teams, height, rules, alone and just flat out rank what they have done on black and white paper and call it a day!

All of them DID have ridiculous stats. Players 6'4-6'6 averaged 10+ boards, Baylor at 6'5 grabbed 20 boards a game while scoring 30. You also have to consider when people say he played on "crappy teams" (even though he had a HOFer in Lucas later on), it provided him the unique opportunity of getting these type of stats on .500 type teams. In fact you can clearly see a trend with the league pace decreasing as being proportional to his rebounding (also decreasing).

He was clearly a great all around player and very unique for the time but people need to stop using his stats as a ticket to the top 10, when others don't get the same advantage. So either your top 10 is going to be filled with players who have the best combination of legacies, or players like Oscar, Robinson, Malone etc.

[ShaqAttack3234]

By the way if you adjust Oscar Robertson's triple double seasons to 2002-2003 league averages and give him 40 mpg then he'd average 21.6 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 9.2 apg, 49.6 FG%. Still very impressive, but it shows you what just adjusting pace and minutes can do. Granted he may have played 41 or 42 mpg anyway today instead of 40, but 40 mpg is a lot anyway so that's fair.

In case anyone is wondering I chose 2002-2003 because it was the last season before the hand-checking rule change not including the 2003-2004 season when scoring was unusually low.

[Huey Freeman]

Terrible thread.

Oscar Robertson is GOAT.

[Fatal9]

By the way if you adjust Oscar Robertson's triple double seasons to 2002-2003 league averages and give him 40 mpg then he'd average 21.6 ppg, 7.7 rpg, 9.2 apg, 49.6 FG%. Still very impressive, but it shows you what just adjusting pace and minutes can do. Granted he may have played 41 or 42 mpg anyway today instead of 40, but 40 mpg is a lot anyway so that's fair.

Which is statistically similar to Kidd's 19/9/6 season and a couple of his other ones. Not as high FG% though. Still, is that really better than Lebron's season this year? Robinson's prime seasons? Malone's? Kobe's? Shaq's? etc etc

Realistically if I had to predict Oscar's statline today, it would be closer to 25 ppg/ 6 rpg / 8 apg on 48-50%.

[Peter Griffin]

All of them DID have ridiculous stats. Players 6'4-6'6 averaged 10+ boards, Baylor at 6'5 grabbed 20 boards a game while scoring 30. You also have to consider when people say he played on "crappy teams" (even though he had a HOFer in Lucas later on), it provided him the unique opportunity of getting these type of stats on .500 type teams. In fact you can clearly see a trend with the league pace decreasing as being proportional to his rebounding (also decreasing).

He was clearly a great all around player and very unique for the time but people need to stop using his stats as a ticket to the top 10, when others don't get the same advantage. So either your top 10 is going to be filled with players who have the best combination of legacies, or players like Oscar, Robinson, Malone etc.

I see where your coming from, but if we are going to discredit him because of the pace and era, then we must discredit everyone from that time! Then if we are getting into a discredit war, then this era has to be becase of the rules (hand check, 3sec defensive) and then, we will just have an all out discredit fest!

[andgar923]

So I guess we should take Kobe off the top 10 since he played with Shaq?

And take away almost every player today's accomplishments, since they played in an era that was adjusted for stat padding, right?

Also.... we should take into consideration that some players didn't play with the 3pointer.

[kshutts1]

He was a fantastic player, as shown by averaging a triple-double for a whole season, something no one else has ever done.

However, there is a solid point brought up against him...
Why is it that any other player must be judged using their personal statistics AS WELL AS team success? Oscar seems to be the only star to EVER be measured without taking success into account.

I am not trying to take anything away from Oscar.. you can quote pace all you want, but the fact is that no one, even in that faster paced era, averaged a triple double. If you had to liken him to someone today, I'd have to go with Lebron in Kobe's body... Lebron is the most all-around offensively gifted player since Magic, who was it since Oscar... so it's only logical to compare their statistics. I imagine Oscar would average Lebron #s with a few more assists, a few less points.

Anyway, Griffin was also right... if we start to discount something (other than placing a premium on team success -- have the same criteria across the board, guys) such as an era, etc, then it will turn into a "discredit war".

Oscar was a great, great all-around player, but without the team success I just can't place him inside the top 10.