Ranking the top 100 players in NBA history

[DMAVS41]

good list........

1-9 is easy to rank

10-11 is harder... Jerry West or Kobe...

after 11....... it gets ridicilously hard to order everybody correctly

HE MADE ONLY ONE MAJOR ULTRA STUPID MISTAKE.......... WITH DIRK NOWITZKI...

Where do you rank Dirk?

[WillC]

I'm still waiting for pauk's reply...

[greensborohill]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=143465

Also, decent list but IMO you have Payton ranked way too low, and Dirk way too high.

lol @ the very first response being about Dirk being too high. I love the backlash at dude going HAM and winning the

[pauk]

I'm still waiting for pauk's reply...

Dirk does not belong over Karl Malone, Isiah Thomas, Bob Cousy, George Mikan (ridiciously underrated), David Robinson (who is ridicilously underrated in that list... just sad.. look at his accomplishments and you could argue he is even close to as good as Hakeem was...) etc. just yet......... you dont need to wait for my reply... compare the accomplishments, achievements, milestones, records, productions and most importantly the impact to the evolution of NBA's future (in bob cousys.. mikans case).....

dirk was never that high on ANYONES list......... EVER.... until now... what is the difference? 1 RING? well whoopedifreakindooooooooo

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Dirk has a ring, Finals MVP and reg MVP. Ranking him in the top 20 is not absurd anymore. He has legit cases over guys like Malone, Barkley, KG, etc. Not to mention, he had 50+ wins every season for a decade, right? (correct me if I'm wrong) That's great consistency right there. The Mavericks were contenders, but seemed to be extremely unlucky.(Cuban''s big mouth might've cost the Mavs the title in 06)

Kobe's rank is just fine. You can opt to put him as high as 7, or as low as 10, not ridiculous at all.

I didn't read the whole list, but in the top 10, I disagree. Bump Hakeem into the top 10, bump Oscar out. My Top 3 would be Jordan, Russell/Kareem, Kareem/Russell. Wilt and Oscar put up great statistics but were not exactly "winning". After all the ultimate goal in basketball is winning titles, and that should account to a player's legacy in some way.

As for Wilt, he had one prime year where he seemed to be a real winner(though his team was incredibly loaded), and that same team won 55 games the year after he left, just 7 less than they won the previous year with him, and that's also with power forward Luke Jackson going from 82 games played in '68 to 25 in '69.

And in '68, they blew a 3-1 lead. Now Billy Cunningham was injured, but they got the 3-1 lead with him injured, and everyone knows about Wilt's game 7(14 points, 4/9 FG, 6/15 FT and I believe only took 1 shot in the second half), but even worse was his game 6.

With a chance, to close out the Celtics for a second straight year, Wilt's teammate Hal Greer had a very efficient 40 points(15/24 FG, 10/13 FT). What did Wilt do? 20 points on an unbelievably bad 6/21 FG and 8/23 FT.

In '66, Wilt led the 76ers to the best record in the NBA, but again he lost to Boston. The team didn't play well, but Wilt was a cancer at the time, feuding with his coach and skipping practice. And as Philly fell down 3-1, he oly averaged 23 or 23.5 ppg those first 4 games and shot like 48-49% from the field with his usual poor FT%, even in game 5, his 46/34 game was too little too late and his efficiency still wasn't great(19/34 FG, 8/25 FT) and he ended the series 28 ppg, 51 FG%, 41 FT%, 50 TS%, well below his season averages as usual in the playoffs.

'69 was among the worst. coming off 3 straight MVPs, he joins Baylor and West on the Lakers who had consistently made the finals(including the previous season). Despite West playing 10 more games, they only improved from 52 wins to 55 wins. Wilt's regular season scoring average of 20.5 ppg(58.3 FG%, 56.4 TS%) fell to 13.9 ppg(54.5 FG%, 51.8 TS%) in the playoffs and 11.7 ppg in the finals.

Of course they lost despite Jerry West having a 40 point triple double in game 7 and playing so well that he was named finals MVP. Definitely a worse failure than Lebron and his big 3 this past year.

That covers a lot of Wilt's prime, and there are other huge black marks throughout it as well. Leading a team to an 11-33 record in his prime before getting traded midseason, leading a team to a 31-49 record in his statistical prime(makes you question how much his stats mean).

All that is way too much against Wilt to consider him a top 5. His career is smoke and mirrors.

If '67 didn't seem so much like an anomaly then he might rank higher(even so, his skill set is really unimpressive compared to other top 10 big men, just my 2 cents), but if we are all questioning Lebron's mentality this year, then I definitely have to question Wilt's. The same guy who said that he sometimes preferred to lose because there was less pressure heading into the next game. The same guy who prefers stats over winning. That's what Bill Russell has over him.

[greensborohill]

Dirk does not belong over Karl Malone, Isiah Thomas, Bob Cousy, George Mikan (ridiciously underrated), David Robinson (who is ridicilously underrated in that list... just sad.. look at his accomplishments and you could argue he is even close to as good as Hakeem was...) etc. just yet......... you dont need to wait for my reply... compare the accomplishments, achievements, milestones, records, productions and most importantly the impact to the evolution of NBA's future (in bob cousys.. mikans case).....

dirk was never that high on ANYONES list......... EVER.... until now... what is the difference? 1 RING? well whoopedifreakindooooooooo

Yeah, I think you care too much. Must've been one of those "Dirk will never win a ring" types before this year. Now you're trying to justify what you just witnessed.

[WillC]

It's quite sad how some people fail to recognise Dirk's brilliance. Instead, he'll retire, and they'll look back when it's too late and think "damn, I never appreciated how great he was", which is a real shame.

[Big#50]

It's quite sad how some people fail to recognise Dirk's brilliance. Instead, he'll retire, and they'll look back when it's too late and think "damn, I never appreciated how great he was", which is a real shame.

He is top 20 in my list. If only he played better defense. I would have him in my top 10 if he was a good defender. He is one of the toughest match ups of all time. How the **** do you guard a ***** 7ft shooting guard?

[WillC]

Is there any statistical evidence to prove he was a bad defender though?

Don't get me wrong, he's obviously not on the same level as Duncan or Garnett, but I'll take Dirk's defense over Barkley's in a heart beat.

[jlauber]

Dirk has a ring, Finals MVP and reg MVP. Ranking him in the top 20 is not absurd anymore. He has legit cases over guys like Malone, Barkley, KG, etc. Not to mention, he had 50+ wins every season for a decade, right? (correct me if I'm wrong) That's great consistency right there. The Mavericks were contenders, but seemed to be extremely unlucky.(Cuban''s big mouth might've cost the Mavs the title in 06)

Kobe's rank is just fine. You can opt to put him as high as 7, or as low as 10, not ridiculous at all.

I didn't read the whole list, but in the top 10, I disagree. Bump Hakeem into the top 10, bump Oscar out. My Top 3 would be Jordan, Russell/Kareem, Kareem/Russell. Wilt and Oscar put up great statistics but were not exactly "winning". After all the ultimate goal in basketball is winning titles, and that should account to a player's legacy in some way.

As for Wilt, he had one prime year where he seemed to be a real winner(though his team was incredibly loaded), and that same team won 55 games the year after he left, just 7 less than they won the previous year with him, and that's also with power forward Luke Jackson going from 82 games played in '68 to 25 in '69.

And in '68, they blew a 3-1 lead. Now Billy Cunningham was injured, but they got the 3-1 lead with him injured, and everyone knows about Wilt's game 7(14 points, 4/9 FG, 6/15 FT and I believe only took 1 shot in the second half), but even worse was his game 6.

With a chance, to close out the Celtics for a second straight year, Wilt's teammate Hal Greer had a very efficient 40 points(15/24 FG, 10/13 FT). What did Wilt do? 20 points on an unbelievably bad 6/21 FG and 8/23 FT.

In '66, Wilt led the 76ers to the best record in the NBA, but again he lost to Boston. The team didn't play well, but Wilt was a cancer at the time, feuding with his coach and skipping practice. And as Philly fell down 3-1, he oly averaged 23 or 23.5 ppg those first 4 games and shot like 48-49% from the field with his usual poor FT%, even in game 5, his 46/34 game was too little too late and his efficiency still wasn't great(19/34 FG, 8/25 FT) and he ended the series 28 ppg, 51 FG%, 41 FT%, 50 TS%, well below his season averages as usual in the playoffs.

'69 was among the worst. coming off 3 straight MVPs, he joins Baylor and West on the Lakers who had consistently made the finals(including the previous season). Despite West playing 10 more games, they only improved from 52 wins to 55 wins. Wilt's regular season scoring average of 20.5 ppg(58.3 FG%, 56.4 TS%) fell to 13.9 ppg(54.5 FG%, 51.8 TS%) in the playoffs and 11.7 ppg in the finals.

Of course they lost despite Jerry West having a 40 point triple double in game 7 and playing so well that he was named finals MVP. Definitely a worse failure than Lebron and his big 3 this past year.

That covers a lot of Wilt's prime, and there are other huge black marks throughout it as well. Leading a team to an 11-33 record in his prime before getting traded midseason, leading a team to a 31-49 record in his statistical prime(makes you question how much his stats mean).

All that is way too much against Wilt to consider him a top 5. His career is smoke and mirrors.

If '67 didn't seem so much like an anomaly then he might rank higher(even so, his skill set is really unimpressive compared to other top 10 big men, just my 2 cents), but if we are all questioning Lebron's mentality this year, then I definitely have to question Wilt's. The same guy who said that he sometimes preferred to lose because there was less pressure heading into the next game. The same guy who prefers stats over winning. That's what Bill Russell has over him.

Pure TRASH.



Do some REAL research on the '66, '68, and '69 seasons and post-seasons, and then get back to me. BTW, you forgot to mention Chamberlain taking horrible rosters to within an eyelash of beating Russell's HOF-laden teams.

[WillC]

I hate it when people try to devalue what Wilt did in the NBA. He's a legend and definitely a top 5 player of all-time.

I really like Bill Simmons and tend to agree with him on most things but it annoys me that he only has Wilt ranked 7th all-time.

[97 bulls]

Is there any statistical evidence to prove he was a bad defender though?

Don't get me wrong, he's obviously not on the same level as Duncan or Garnett, but I'll take Dirk's defense over Barkley's in a heart beat.

This isntt saying much. And dirk has always been hid on defense.

[97 bulls]

Denniss rodman is way to low. He should be top 30. The disrespect defensive players get never ceases to amaze me. He's more accomplished than most of the players on this list. And arguubly the greatest defender ever. As well as rebounder.

[Math2]

Pure TRASH.



Do some REAL research on the '66, '68, and '69 seasons and post-seasons, and then get back to me. BTW, you forgot to mention Chamberlain taking horrible rosters to within an eyelash of beating Russell's HOF-laden teams.

Chamberlain had horrible rosters? HA. What a joke. Let's list his best teammates:

1960: Paul Arizin, Tom Gola, and Guy Rodgers...wins? 49 and lost to Boston in East Finals...is that horrible?

1961: Arizin, Gola, Rodgers...46 wins and SWEPT by the Nationals in the first round

1962: Tom Meschery, Arizin, Gola, Rodgers, 49 wins

1963: Tom Meschery, Rodgers...31 wins (this was a kinda bad team...)

1964: Tom Meschery, ROdgers, Thurmond 48 wins

1965: Hal Greer, Luke Jackson, Chet Walker...40 wins.....that is his best team yet. Not including other relevant players past their primes....

1966: Greer, Walker, Billy Cunningham....55 wins

1967: Wilts first unselfish year since 1964....Greer, Walker, Cunningham, Wali Jones....68 wins

1968: Greer, Walker, Cunningham, Wali JOnes, Luke Jackson....62 wins

1969 on: West Baylor...is that horrible?

Most of the HOFs on Russell's Celtics wouldn't have made it without Russell...lets look at them and whether they would make the HOF with out Russell........

Cousy....Yes
Heinsohn...Maybe
Andy PHillip...Yes (one of those veteran signings....way past his prime)
Frank Ramsey...Probably not
Arnie Risen: Yes (vet signings)
Bill Sharman: Yes
Sam Jones: Most likley not
KC JOnes: No
Clyde Lovellette: Yes (vet sign)
Hondo: Yes
Bailey Howell: Most likley yes
Satch Sanders: No

Most of the HOFers were past their primes: Here's the list, Phillip, Risen, Lovellette, and Howell. Cousy and Sharman were going to make in because of their 50s. Ramsey may have been an early sixth man....but if he was on a bad team...he wouldn't get recognized. Jones would be known more as a bad defender with out Russell, and his contributions would be as big. KC made it solely because of RUssell, same with Sanders. Howell was probably helped a little by his efforts, but was better before.

[DMAVS41]

This isntt saying much. And dirk has always been hid on defense.

This is somewhat misleading. Dirk is actually an above average man to man defender. In fact, since the 06 season....I'd say he's been a solid to good man to man defender.

He's also very good on the defensive glass....which is absolutely part of defense.

Where Dirk has always struggled is on rotations to protect the rim, pick and roll defense (although he's not terrible), and recovering from help to close out on shooters.

His defense is certainly not great or anything....but he's a far cry from a steve nash or someone that is truly a historically bad defender. You also have to understand that Dirk spent the first part of his career playing in a run and gun system under Nelson.....When Dirk was asked to focus more on defense under Avery...he did, and his defensive play saw a noticeable increase in quality.