Total shooting this total shooting that

[ralph_i_el]

To me its kind of simple:

Take your top ten GOAT and see how they rank in both categories. FG% is definitely a better indicator of greatness. In fact, TS% often works against the GOATs or relegates them to the middle of the pack in almost every case! The most dominant players consistently are high FG% people. especially position wise.

Magic totally destroys Bird in TS%, playoffs and regular season. As much as 75 % points in Bird's healthy prime ('84). That's phenomenal. Yet you will hear frequently on these boards about how Bird was in a different league. Yet, Magic was in a different league TS% wise.

Over the years I would check TS% with players that scored very high and Dantley stood out among the 30ppg scorers - a threshold few players ever get to but there is usually one or two that do attain it within a five year span. Adrian Dantley is the TS% king. You guys never talk about Dantley. Its definitely a stat that is misleading.

You have to look at TS% in the context of usg%. Magic had higher TS%'s than Bird, but only had USG%'s around 20% (average. 100%/5 players). Bird had usg%'s of 25-30%.

[stalkerforlife]

If you don't factor in threes and free throws, that's dumb. Especially if the player shoots a lot of both.

[tontoz]

To me its kind of simple:

Take your top ten GOAT and see how they rank in both categories. FG% is definitely a better indicator of greatness. In fact, TS% often works against the GOATs or relegates them to the middle of the pack in almost every case! The most dominant players consistently are high FG% people. especially position wise.

Magic totally destroys Bird in TS%, playoffs and regular season. As much as 75 % points in Bird's healthy prime ('84). That's phenomenal. Yet you will hear frequently on these boards about how Bird was in a different league. Yet, Magic was in a different league TS% wise.

Over the years I would check TS% with players that scored very high and Dantley stood out among the 30ppg scorers - a threshold few players ever get to but there is usually one or two that do attain it within a five year span. Adrian Dantley is the TS% king. You guys never talk about Dantley. Its definitely a stat that is misleading.

Correlation does not equal causation. You also have to look at overall production when looking at GOAT.

It is obviously easier to maintain high scoring efficiency with a lower scoring average. Magic didn't score as much as Bird so obviously it was easier to maintain higher efficiency.

TS is not a measure of scoring volume, only of efficiency. And it does a much better job than FG.

[stalkerforlife]

You have to look at TS% in the context of usg%. Magic had higher TS%'s than Bird, but only had USG%'s around 20% (average. 100%/5 players). Bird had usg%'s of 25-30%.

Ether.

[GimmeThat]

You people should memorize chess moves more often. Especially the variations just even after a few moves to include counters.

[Mass Debator]

TS% is a regular season stat.

In the playoffs when the game slows down, fouls aren't called on a consistent basis, and games are decided by just a few points, it's those who can score on command that succeed. Although underrated, 2P% is a good indicator for that and it is one of my favorite stat. Jordan was the master of it out on the perimeter.

Let's say there are 1.5 minutes left and the game is within 4 points. Even though someone is around a 36% (pretty good) 3-point shooter, you simply can't have an empty possession with a missed shot. 3-point shots are almost rendered useless for star players in these situations. The ball should be in their hands and jacking 3-point shots on tight defense isn't going to cut it. Driving to the hoop and looking for a foul when the refs are swallowing their whistles isn't a good move either. This is when the mid-range game and ability to dish out to open sharp shooters is extremely important. Pressure defense and getting out in the transition game is just as vital too.

I understand the importance of TS%, but to me, it's more like a "The game is over now, let me check how efficient I scored overall." For FG%, it's like an in game "Damn, I'm missing my shots. I gotta take and make better shots."

[navy]

I dont like TS%, but only because of the .45 that is thrown in the formula. And yes, I know why it is put in there.

[CeltsGarlic]

OP is the type of person who hates TS% but loves PER and WS.

Never said that.

Cant even tell who leads the league in those tbh.

[Akhenaten]

It's a weighted %
Because the point values of shots in basketball are weighted differently.

Is this a fancy way of saying a ft = 1 point, a shot within 23' 9= 3 points, and a shot within 23'9=2 points

WOW BRILLANT

my puny brain can barely understand these "weighted values", you are so intellectually advanced

[tontoz]

I dont like TS%, but only because of the .45 that is thrown in the formula. And yes, I know why it is put in there.

What would you prefer? They had to do something to account for possessions that end in free throws.

We already have EFG which measures just shooting from the field.

[Akhenaten]

They had to do something to account for possessions that end in free throws.

Imma let you in on a lil secret bruh, thehy had this stat that has existed for about 60 years...you ready? It's called.......FT shooting %!

It tells you how many ft's a guy has converted vs the amount he has not converted.

@ "they had to do something"
yall bout some a the goofiest folks I've ever encountered, gotta love the internet man.

[riseagainst]

Imma let you in on a lil secret bruh, thehy had this stat that has existed for about 60 years...you ready? It's called.......FT shooting %!

It tells you how many ft's a guy has converted vs the amount he has not converted.

@ "they had to do something"
yall bout some a the goofiest folks I've ever encountered, gotta love the internet man.

you are an idiot.

[navy]

Imma let you in on a lil secret bruh, thehy had this stat that has existed for about 60 years...you ready? It's called.......FT shooting %!

It tells you how many ft's a guy has converted vs the amount he has not converted.

@ "they had to do something"
yall bout some a the goofiest folks I've ever encountered, gotta love the internet man.

He's right though. Have you ever actually looked at the stat?

"The .44 multiplier is because not all free throws take up a possession. Technical foul shots and "and-ones" do not, while there are more than two free throws on one possession with a three-shot foul. Research has determined that about 44% of all free throws take up possessions, thus .44 is used as the multiplier. "

If we wanted a better statistic, each persons ts% would have to calculated with individually different multipliers.

[MP.Trey]

F*ck advanced stats.

[eklip]

Why would you just look at FG%? I look at PTS scored in in proportion to the FGA, FTA (2 FTA = ~1 FGA).

TS% pretty much puts that into a number, so it's convenient to compare different players. You don't have to use it, though. Just look at the FGA and FTA. There is no magic.

An example:
Player 1: 18 pts on 17 FGA/0FTA (9-17, 53 FG%)
Player 2: 18 pts on 12 FGA/0FTA (6-12, 50 FG%)
Player 3: 18 pts on 10 FGA/6FTA (4-10, 40 FG%)

Obviously player 1 is much worse than player 2 and 3 even though he has better FG%. It's difficult to say which player is more efficient between P2 and P3, because P3 could have had multiple AND-1 plays or fouls on 3 point shots. TS% tries to estimate the number of AND-1 and 3-point fouls, probably based on the league average. The most likely scenario is that P2 was more efficient than P3.

TS% of these three players:
Player 1: 53%
Player 2: 75%
Player 3: 71%

TS% was introduced because FG% and eFG% were so flawed at showing the efficiency of a player. It's just the better stat. In the future there probably won't be an arbitrary estimate in TS% (It's neglectable right now), because we have play by play data to see how every player got to the FT line (And-1, 3P shooting foul, 2P shooting foul, technical fouls).