Lebron vs Hakeem.

[SamuraiSWISH]

There is legitimately zero argument that rose was better than lebron in 2011.

As a player, sure. Context, he had the argument for MVP.

Even disregarding that ... do you not agree with the rest of what I said?

[Stephen Curry]

I'm a better shooter than both of them combined.

[Electric Slide]

As a player, sure. Context, he had the argument for MVP.

Even disregarding that ... do you not agree with the rest of what I said?

Ehh.... I don't see much of an argument for either Kobe or Wade in 2009 or 2010 honestly. Lebron just didn't win it all. You don't have to win it all to be the best. If winning is your premise, I don't know how you can say Wade was better in 09 or 10 either because he was even less successful.

Lebron's post-season play in 2010 was way blown out of proportion which is why I'm assuming you have Kobe above him. He just had a bad series for his standard and his team was completely outmatched. If you switched their teams, there is no question in my mind that Lebron would have won it all and probably would have won it faster. I doubt he would have needed all 7 games to beat the Celtics with Gasol, Odom, and Bynum.

2011 is the only one where you can say he wasn't the best and that Wade, Dirk, and Dwight were better.

But 2009 and 2010? Nah.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Only a matter of time really.

[COLOR="White"]this[/COLOR]

[Jolokia]

Lebron will already be greater than everyone except for the following (if he wins another FMVP):

MJ
Russell
Magic
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan

Top 10 player of all time before the age of 29.

[joeysms55]

The 'best player' part is plain stupid it depends on the players from that particular era. If LeBron played in the 90s he wouldn't be the best player. He would be the runner up to the-one-we-all-know.

Like saying if Jordan didn't retire then Hakeem will have 0 best player too

[chosen_wun]

This FMVP will put him over Hakeem imo. No homer.

[Sarcastic]

I just think its more debatable than many here refuse to think, its close i think and therefore more interesting to discuss. Keep in mind what company Lebron is with those 4 MVPs aswell... Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain.... players who were not only better than Hakeem, but contenders for Greatest Player of All Time.

Steve Nash has more MVPs than Isiah Thomas. That doesn't make him better. Heck Derrick Rose has more MVPs than Isiah. The MVP is not a great tool to rate players against each other for several reasons. For one, the voting rules have changed. The players themselves used to vote. Now the media does. Also the definition of what truly is the MVP has never been defined.

Michael Jordan should probably have 10 MVPs, but instead he only has 5. The voters change their opinions from year to year on who should get the award. Sometimes they like to crown a past champion, and sometimes they get fatigue and want to give it to a new guy.


On top of that, the competition is different from era to era. Dirk has an MVP, but he never competed with Magic, Bird, nor Michael to get it. It's just an awful awful awful way to try to judge players from different eras.

[LongLiveTheKing]

NBA Finals

Hakeem
1986: 25-12-2-2-3 (loss was to the 86 Celtics, arguably the GOAT team)
1994: 27-9-4-2-4 (Jordan wasn't in the league)
1995: 33-12-6-2-2(MJ played 17 games)

Lebron
2007: 22-7-7-1-1 (loss, 6 to, 36 fg%)(A
2011: 18-7-7-2-1 (loss, 4 to, 3 ppg in 4th quarters, 0 points on 0-7 in the clutch, 5th leading scorer in the series, outscored by bench player)
2012: 29-10-7-2-0 (lockout year)

"NEXT"

How does the lock out affect the Finals?
In 2007 I'm so sure the Spurs were worried about Larry Hughes beating them and didn't focus their entire defense on Lebron.

[ThaRegul8r]

Steve Nash has more MVPs than Isiah Thomas. That doesn't make him better. Heck Derrick Rose has more MVPs than Isiah.

Didn't know Nash and Rose were in the category of players being discussed.

As they're not, it's irrelevant. I don't get why people bring lesser players into a discussion as if it's supposed to "prove" anything.

[tmacattack33]

He's a center, based on what he's doing and his abilities, he was a dominant force offensively. And still was best defensive player for x years in a row while doing that.
If anything, Hakeem is underrated, he has a case for being the best center ever

1. Centers can certainly be more dominant than Hakeem was...like Shaq and Kareem

2. Flawed logic. You are apparently saying that since Hakeem was a center, he didn't need to or couldn't dominate offensively like he could have. Well then okay, since Lebron is a SF, he can't dominate like a center could on defense.

[dunksby]

Hakeem's two championship runs are much superior to LeBron, how can you begin to compare their teams? pauk with another out of context comparison and that's beside the BS variables he put together to compare them

[TheReturn]

Whats funny to me is the fact that when people compare LBJ to legendary players, they usually just sum up their rings and mvps and say 'Let him get a bunch more and then we'll talk' and anyone who says Lebron is just a better basketball player gets laughed at.

Now Lebron is getting close to Hakeem in terms of achievements and the same fans are arguing 'Hakeem is just the better offensive and defensive player.'

Lacks some consistency.

[Djahjaga]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_assertion

This entire thread is full of this.

"Lebron not the best player in the league," "Lebron has 2 superstars on his team," and the classic, "Olajuwon wouldn't have won if Jordan hadn't left."

This entire forum is full of sh*t like this.

"Shaq carried Kobe to three rings," "Kobe was a lockdown perimeter defender in his prime," "Jordan couldn't win without Pippen," "Grant Hill was on his way to top-15 all time before he was injured," "Kobe was somehow not incredibly lucky to play in a huge market with a top-10 all time player."

No one actually seeks to prove anything here anymore.

[Lebron23]

Whats funny to me is the fact that when people compare LBJ to legendary players, they usually just sum up their rings and mvps and say 'Let him get a bunch more and then we'll talk' and anyone who says Lebron is just a better basketball player gets laughed at.

Now Lebron is getting close to Hakeem in terms of achievements and the same fans are arguing 'Hakeem is just the better offensive and defensive player.'

Lacks some consistency.

Just ignore them. LeBron will surpass Kobe and Hakeem at the end of this season.