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Old 04-07-2007, 09:22 AM   #91
AtTheDriveIn
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccer10

When will they realize that what Odom brings isn't what they as a team need from their 2nd guy???
If Odom was an $8 mill glue guy, then yeah, he'd be fine.

But as a $13 mil 2nd guy, he is not. Period.

So it's all about money?

Had he been payed less, you would've been happy right?

The NBA teams are giving out more and more, what seems to be terrible contracts to players, it's not just the Lakers.

NBA player contracts have gone up considerably these past couple of years and teams aren't afraid of going over the cap limit.

Besides i see no problem with paying $13million to Lamar anyway, I dont understand why you think he's so bad. Yeah, i watch most Laker games, and he doesn't seem to be that bad of a player.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:34 AM   #92
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

He isn't bad. Just a poor fit. A poor comeplement to Kobe. Maybe not truly his fault. Maybe not truly Kobe's fault. I just don't like them as a duo together.

So yes, a lot of it has to do with money.

Get them a guy like JO and they go places. But how do they get that? Absolutley no way without trading Lamar.

I like him in a Diaw role or something. Where he has 2 guys in front of him and like 2 more talented scorers. He'd thrive in a situation like that.

But as a sidekick to Kobe...nah, they're wrong for each other IMO.

Kobe fans/apologists blame Lamar for his passive attitude. Kobe hters/Lamar fans/apologists blame Kobe because they think he's too selfish for a 2nd guy to coexist with him.

I just think they're a poor fit and that the Lakers would be much better with someone like JO. How better? I see a great team.

How to get JO? No way without trading Lamar. And not just Lamar. Probably Bynum too.

Last edited by Soccer10 : 04-07-2007 at 09:36 AM.
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Old 04-07-2007, 09:41 AM   #93
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Firstly, I don't think Bryant will ever find a player who will fit into a second player role behind him because of what you stated earlier. Kobe is a 1 man team and he always will be, there will never be a player who will fit into the second player role.

Secondly, If Lamar isn't worth 13, then Jermaine O'neal definatley isn't worth 18 or whatever he is being payed.

Thirdly, The trade will never happen if a deal would include Lamar Odom because, they already have a good SF in Danny Granger and they already have a fairly decent PF in Troy Murphy. I'm not really too sure what position Dunleavy players anymore, he could be a SG,SF of PF but with him (Dunleavy) in there as well, I just don't see Indiana trading their franchise player for just another wing player.
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:44 AM   #94
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

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Originally Posted by AtTheDriveIn
Firstly, I don't think Bryant will ever find a player who will fit into a second player role behind him because of what you stated earlier. Kobe is a 1 man team and he always will be, there will never be a player who will fit into the second player role.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to think that way but I don't.
However, as you said, it's not working.
You blame Kobe, I blame Odom mostly.
Or maybe perhaps I don't blame any of them because they just don't fit.

However, should the Lakers just stop trying and think that no one will ever be able to play with Kobe? After first guy with many question marks and a style that many said won't fit Kobe? After him? Without trying to get someone with a different mentality or a different style?
I don't think so.

Personally, I think I have every reason to believe that Lamar just doesn't have the mindset of a key player. He has a mind of a role player.
When he's a first option, he's agressive but whenever someone else took over Lamar's stats went down big time.
He was never able to play with a guy that takes over and he had his share of opportunities, first Brand, then Wade, now Kobe.

I see him as a perfect 2nd option talent but with a mentality of a role player.

The thing is IMO that he only feels as a key guy when he indeed is a key guy. When he feels that there is someone better, his game goes down and he defers. He lets that other person do everything and he's just way too passive.

Before judging Kobe, why not give him someone that should at least theorethically fit him better?



Quote:
Secondly, If Lamar isn't worth 13, then Jermaine O'neal definatley isn't worth 18 or whatever he is being payed.

You have a point. JO too is overpaid however IMO he is a star. An all star. A true go to player.
He led Indiana to a 61-21 record. Let's just say that I wouldn't mind seeing him play with Kobe.
He's an agressive scorer, demands the ball and unlike Odom he wants the ball.
So, his mentality is a plus and his game style is even more of a plus.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's overrated.
Not a great man to man defender and he settles too much for high post shots but in the NBA it's all about matchups.
The only good quality of Kwame's is his size and post defense. JO OTOH excels as a shotblocker. So much, size, athleticism and complementary skils. JO would be perfect in that regard.
As for his refusal so play in the post every time, yes, that I'd have the problem with but it's like Kobe shooting stuid shots, it makes them less effective but overall you can't complain.



Quote:
Thirdly, The trade will never happen if a deal would include Lamar Odom because, they already have a good SF in Danny Granger and they already have a fairly decent PF in Troy Murphy. I'm not really too sure what position Dunleavy players anymore, he could be a SG,SF of PF but with him (Dunleavy) in there as well, I just don't see Indiana trading their franchise player for just another wing player.

Murphy is overpaid trash IMO. I hate players like him. Not that it matters but I hate Al Harrington too.
Love Granger though.

Anyway, it's been reported before that Bird has a soft spot for Odom and since apparently Indiana will look for a JO trade and he himself will talk to the management because he doesn't want to end up like Garnett and is too passionate, hard working and has a will to win.....I'd say that the Lakers have a good chance to get him if they offer Odom and Bynum.

You're right though. Their structure is terrible but no way is Troy Murphy a starting caliber player. Hated him in GS when he was putting up good numbers too.

They need to replace JO somehow though...if he asks out.

Think they"ll get better than Odom and Bynum?

I just find it hard to trade for JO without giving Kwame and I want to keep Kwame over Bynum.
Unfortunetely Kwame has a contract that can match JO's salary but fortunetely the Lakers will give more thought to a trade if it's Kwame instead of Bynum.
It was reported that the Pacers are also looking to unload Tinsley.

So the way I see it, it could go like this

Odom
Kwame :

JO
Tinsley

Probably some picks and more players would have to be included to sweeten the deal.

The Pacers would get a really good player in Odom and a decent player and hell of a cap relief in Kwame.
Financially, it's an amazing move for them.

I'd still do it....but I'd want the Lakers to replace Kwame and that might not be easy.
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Old 04-07-2007, 10:45 AM   #95
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtTheDriveIn
Firstly, I don't think Bryant will ever find a player who will fit into a second player role behind him because of what you stated earlier. Kobe is a 1 man team and he always will be, there will never be a player who will fit into the second player role.

That's your opinion and you're entitled to think that way but I don't.
However, as you said, it's not working.
You blame Kobe, I blame Odom mostly.
Or maybe perhaps I don't blame any of them because they just don't fit.

However, should the Lakers just stop trying and think that no one will ever be able to play with Kobe? After first guy with many question marks and a style that many said won't fit Kobe? After him? Without trying to get someone with a different mentality or a different style?
I don't think so.

Personally, I think I have every reason to believe that Lamar just doesn't have the mindset of a key player. He has a mind of a role player.
When he's a first option, he's agressive but whenever someone else took over Lamar's stats went down big time.
He was never able to play with a guy that takes over and he had his share of opportunities, first Brand, then Wade, now Kobe.

I see him as a perfect 2nd option talent but with a mentality of a role player.

The thing is IMO that he only feels as a key guy when he indeed is a key guy. When he feels that there is someone better, his game goes down and he defers. He lets that other person do everything and he's just way too passive.

Before judging Kobe, why not give him someone that should at least theorethically fit him better?



Quote:
Secondly, If Lamar isn't worth 13, then Jermaine O'neal definatley isn't worth 18 or whatever he is being payed.

You have a point. JO too is overpaid however IMO he is a star. An all star. A true go to player.
He led Indiana to a 61-21 record. Let's just say that I wouldn't mind seeing him play with Kobe.
He's an agressive scorer, demands the ball and unlike Odom he wants the ball.
So, his mentality is a plus and his game style is even more of a plus.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's overrated.
Not a great man to man defender and he settles too much for high post shots but in the NBA it's all about matchups.
The only good quality of Kwame's is his size and post defense. JO OTOH excels as a shotblocker. So much, size, athleticism and complementary skils. JO would be perfect in that regard.
As for his refusal so play in the post every time, yes, that I'd have the problem with but it's like Kobe shooting stuid shots, it makes them less effective but overall you can't complain.



Quote:
Thirdly, The trade will never happen if a deal would include Lamar Odom because, they already have a good SF in Danny Granger and they already have a fairly decent PF in Troy Murphy. I'm not really too sure what position Dunleavy players anymore, he could be a SG,SF of PF but with him (Dunleavy) in there as well, I just don't see Indiana trading their franchise player for just another wing player.

Murphy is overpaid trash IMO. I hate players like him. Not that it matters but I hate Al Harrington too.
Love Granger though.

Anyway, it's been reported before that Bird has a soft spot for Odom and since apparently Indiana will look for a JO trade and he himself will talk to the management because he doesn't want to end up like Garnett and is too passionate, hard working and has a will to win.....I'd say that the Lakers have a good chance to get him if they offer Odom and Bynum.

You're right though. Their structure is terrible but no way is Troy Murphy a starting caliber player. Hated him in GS when he was putting up good numbers too.

They need to replace JO somehow though...if he asks out.

Think they"ll get better than Odom and Bynum?

I just find it hard to trade for JO without giving Kwame and I want to keep Kwame over Bynum.
Unfortunetely Kwame has a contract that can match JO's salary but fortunetely the Lakers will give more thought to a trade if it's Kwame instead of Bynum.
It was reported that the Pacers are also looking to unload Tinsley.

So the way I see it, it could go like this

Odom
Kwame

JO
Tinsley

Probably some picks and more players would have to be included to sweeten the deal.

The Pacers would get a really good player in Odom and a decent player and hell of a cap relief in Kwame.
Financially, it's an amazing move for them.

I'd still do it....but I'd want the Lakers to replace Kwame and that might not be easy.

Kwame
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:54 PM   #96
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

JO does only one thing significantly better than LO...block shots (very important of course).

LO does only one thing significantly better than JO... assists (very important of course, esp in the triangle).

They have the same "efficiency" rating. JO scores more points, but shoots a lower percentage.

JO is only a slight upgrade over LO but, importantly, you don't know a) how he will perform in the triangle and b) how he will perform no longer as the #1 option.
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Old 04-07-2007, 12:59 PM   #97
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Naa, JO's not the type of guy to mind being a number 2 option. I mean, it's not like he takes a ton of shots in Indi anyways, and playing with #24 will always minimize player's egos, considering how well respected he is around the league.

And JO is most definately above Odom right now, if only because he has such a great ability in the post. Odom is a perimeter player while JO works downlow, and just opens everything up for everyone else.

I was going to write something big on this and make it a good deal longer, but I lost interest. Weird. Oh well.
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Old 04-07-2007, 01:16 PM   #98
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedinpurple
JO does only one thing significantly better than LO...block shots (very important of course).

LO does only one thing significantly better than JO... assists (very important of course, esp in the triangle).

They have the same "efficiency" rating. JO scores more points, but shoots a lower percentage.

JO is only a slight upgrade over LO but, importantly, you don't know a) how he will perform in the triangle and b) how he will perform no longer as the #1 option.

JO gets double teamed. Odom doesn't. JO's a post player. Odom isn't.
JO brings much more to the defense. JO's primary position on the court is in the post. Odom himself doesn't know whet type of a player he is.
JO is agressive and demands touches and attention.

Inside-outside offense. The best way to win. Instead of whatever we have now.

20 points from LO is better than 25 points from Odom. Not that he scores that much anyway.

Balance is the key. On this current Lakers team, JO provides it. Odom doesn't.

Not even close.
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Old 04-07-2007, 05:40 PM   #99
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

on a sidenote, i bet $300 on the lakers (-3.5), but fricking idiot wilkins runs up and hits a 30 foot 3 pointer with no time left, even tho his team had no chance of winning, therefore he made it a 3 point game. wut a fukin idiot
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:32 PM   #100
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

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So Glove, you're not going to wear the avatar?
So your not going to call it even?
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:33 PM   #101
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Wow, Glove_20 critisizes LD and he's doing the same thing.
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:34 PM   #102
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydacris
on a sidenote, i bet $300 on the lakers (-3.5), but fricking idiot wilkins runs up and hits a 30 foot 3 pointer with no time left, even tho his team had no chance of winning, therefore he made it a 3 point game. wut a fukin idiot

That absolutely ****ing sucks. I actually feel for you man, that's brutal.
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:40 PM   #103
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

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Originally Posted by Kobe24
Wow, Glove_20 critisizes LD and he's doing the same thing.


Thats why I am trying to call it "Even"...He didn't do my thing, I'll let him go if he lets me go
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:42 PM   #104
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaydacris
on a sidenote, i bet $300 on the lakers (-3.5), but fricking idiot wilkins runs up and hits a 30 foot 3 pointer with no time left, even tho his team had no chance of winning, therefore he made it a 3 point game. wut a fukin idiot

And thats how I won the bet
:)
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Old 04-07-2007, 06:57 PM   #105
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Default Re: Lakers at Sonics

Fine

Me and LakerDynasty are still not even.

I made negotiotions so he would not give me that "horrible" Kobe avatar


But we aren't even, he still didn't do my 2 month ban bet, and I'll continue talking about it
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