If there is no Brawl in Nov of 2004, are the Pacers in the 2005 Finals vs the Spurs?

[sportsfan76]

Remember how good that pacers team was in 2004 which was evident the way they dominated the Pistons which caused the Brawl. Then Artest gets suspended and that messed up the season because they were clearly the beast of the east before that Brawl

Agree or Disagree?

[JtotheIzzo]

The Pacers vs Pistons ECF in 2004 was like a gang battle, or two opposing hooligan firms met up and decided to battle it out on a basketball court.

It was straight up murderball.

Pacers were better in 2005, ready to make the jump, until Ron Ron and Jacko jumped in the stands .

Pity, set the franchise back 7 years. I watched that Malice game live in a hotel room in Taipei, Taiwan hungover as fakk on a Saturday morning (it was Friday night in the US). Early in the season as it was my brain was not ready to process the magnitude of the game, I just, in true Alkoholik form, thought 'Damn!'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtU2VExrwWY

BTW the above song has the best simile in rap history.

"I'm just a n*gga kickin my shit like Reggie Roby."

[niko]

No, they were morons. They would have derailed themselves somehow. it wouldn't have been as obvious and direct, but they would have. Morons tend to act like morons.

[JtotheIzzo]

No, they were morons. They would have derailed themselves somehow. it wouldn't have been as obvious and direct, but they would have. Morons tend to act like morons.

Yeah, that is why Jackson and Artest went on to have huge moments in other jerseys were an integral part of Championship teams in their careers.

Do you ever think nowadays? you used to be somewhat passable as a poster, now you are a moron.

And I have no dog in this fight, just making an observation.

[Droid101]

Easily. Artest was getting MVP talk before the brawl. Pacers were legit.

[STATUTORY]

they were peaking that year

Ron Artest back then was more than just a scary enforcer with a funny haircut and name, he was a legit 20+ point scorer in addition to lock down defender

Stephen Jackson had the requisite toughness to compensate for Jermaine' lack thereof. And reggie was still going strong.

they would been a tough out for the Spurs. Pistons was a flash in the pan, they were never able to replicate what they did in 2004

[Rake2204]

Yeah, that is why Jackson and Artest went on to have huge moments in other jerseys were an integral part of Championship teams in their careers.

Do you ever think nowadays? you used to be somewhat passable as a poster, now you are a moron.

And I have no dog in this fight, just making an observation.

With the way the Pacers played the Pistons the year prior (Indiana had an opportunity to take the '04 Conference Finals), I think there's a good chance they could have made a Finals run in 2005.

That said, I don't think its crazy to believe they would have derailed themselves. Artest was a ticking time bomb. If it wasn't the brawl at the Palace, I believe it probably would have been something else. Even before the fight, Artest had strangely requested a month off from the team in November to rest his body (while in part citing a busy schedule that included promoting a new album). That was enough to "compromise the integrity of the team", in Rick Carlisle's eyes at the time (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1920455).

On top of that, I think it can be argued that Artest cost them an appearance in the Finals the year before as well. People often point to his mindless and completely needless elbow of Richard Hamilton in Game 6, and I think that served as the nail in the coffin, but Artest was awful all series. Before the Harden Game this year, Artest's offensive performance in Game 2 may have been the worst I'd seen, just in terms of his offensive decisions each time down (bulldozing into chests, throwing awful shots): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTExxfyX_0c

I think the potential for Stephen Jackson causing a problem was much less, but I think the Pacers were relatively volatile as a whole, in terms of maintaining their team chemistry long enough with few enough debilitating issues to make a Finals run. A Finals run definitely could have happened, but the Palace brawl was an extreme example of that squad's Achilles heel from the start.

[TheBigVeto]

The Pacers would've made it to the finals and would have a legit chance to dethrone the Spurs.