LeBron vs Bird argument officially destroyed

[Paul George 24]

Career per 100 possession stats

LeBron

36.9 points 9.3 asssists 9.3 rebounds 2.3 steals 1.1 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html


Bird

30.3 points 7.9 assists 12.5 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.0 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../birdla01.html



Not only does LeBron already put up much better stats than Bird but when you look at it in terms of per 100 possessions the difference is even greater. LeBron is statistically an entire tier above Bird.



lol

rekt

U STILL ALIVE

[aj1987]

He only attempted 22 and 23.6 shots per game in those years, compared to 27.1 this year.. That's by far the most he's ever taken.

21 games in the PO's in which he played with rejects. Yeah.

Super-dumb.

Their foolish positioning of players closer to the rim (instead of shooting threes) activated the legal paint-camping provision in the Illegal Defense Guidelines - [COLOR="Blue"]rule 2b[/COLOR] said defenders could remain in the paint "with no time restriction" if their man was already in the paint or within 3 feet of either side.

Yep, super dumb. Having 3pt snipers allows to spread the floor. Defenders will need to be more cautions on who they leave open. In the '80's, it was go into the paint and take a contested midrange shot, which is dumb. Spacing the floor and scoring is the better option.

Obviously, the lack of 3-point shooting and spacing meant the necessary conditions for unlimited paint-camping were always happening (players being in the paint or near the paint).

They were too dumb to use the 3pt shot....

Maybe, but his teammates wouldn't be... It's not worthwhile to drive and kick for 2-pointers, so without teammates shooting 3-pointers, Lebron would have to score via midrange like everyone else back then.

No, he wouldn't. He would tell his teammates to hit those 3pt shots. According to YOUR LOGIC, if LeBron gets teleported to the '80's, he's gonna tell the shooters to stay at the 3pt line and make them take those 3pt shots. That would absolutely destroy those defenses (again, according to your logic, they wouldn't defend the 3) by raining 3's.

Right, because a lot of guys have top 5 team offenses.. The more important factor is that MJ's teams played to CAPACITY because his teammates played to capacity alongside him.. MJ's teams never lost to a lower seed or when they had HCA, which proves they played to capacity.

Otoh, Lebron's stats lack integrity because he achieves them at the expense of teammates - with Lebron's production preventing teammates from playing to capacity, the TEAM can't play to capacity and underperforms (2009, 2011, 2014).

tl;dr - It only matters when MJ does it.

Not at all - Love and Bosh's assist opportunities should be higher playing alongside high scoring forwards, since forwards are normally high-assisted players and big targets for teammates to find for assists.

However, Lebron isn't a highly-assisted player like all other forwards are... Instead, he's a low-assisted ball-dominator, which lowers the assist opportunities for Love and Bosh.. But alongside your typically, highly-assisted forward, Love and Bosh's assist opportunities would go up.

Dumbass, LeBron is a point forward. He's not a traditional SF/PF.

That MAKES my argument that Lebron can only get stats by diminishing his teammates stats - but he simply didn't get his stats in 2011, so his teammates were able to get theirs.. But any other year, Lebron gets his stats, which means his teammates don't.

Do you want to look at the '11 RS stats? Or the '11 PO stats prior to the Finals?

Did you even watch the 2011 ECSF?

Btw, Lebron's stat accumulation is also helped by employing a stat-friendly, easily-solvable, losing, playground style, rather than the superior, nuanced skill required to achieve stats within an equal-opportunity offense that can actually win.
.

You literally could say the same thing about MJ. He had his best scoring seasons and PO's when he lost. According to your logic, Pippen basically SAVED his career.

You still duck this question, but did you actually EVER watch a SINGLE game?

[dubeta]

21 games in the PO's in which he played with rejects. Yeah.


Yep, super dumb. Having 3pt snipers allows to spread the floor. Defenders will need to be more cautions on who they leave open. In the '80's, it was go into the paint and take a contested midrange shot, which is dumb. Spacing the floor and scoring is the better option.


They were too dumb to use the 3pt shot....


No, he wouldn't. He would tell his teammates to hit those 3pt shots. According to YOUR LOGIC, if LeBron gets teleported to the '80's, he's gonna tell the shooters to stay at the 3pt line and make them take those 3pt shots. That would absolutely destroy those defenses (again, according to your logic, they wouldn't defend the 3) by raining 3's.


tl;dr - It only matters when MJ does it.




Dumbass, LeBron is a point forward. He's not a traditional SF/PF.


Do you want to look at the '11 RS stats? Or the '11 PO stats prior to the Finals?

Did you even watch the 2011 ECSF?


You literally could say the same thing about MJ. He had his best scoring seasons and PO's when he lost. According to your logic, Pippen basically SAVED his career.

You still duck this question, but did you actually EVER watch a SINGLE game?

Bro you're getting trolled pretty bad





Just ignore it and move on


He's trolling you by basically copy and pasting (ctrl V) to your essays. It's not worth the time

[OldSchoolBBall]

Career per 100 possession stats

LeBron

36.9 points 9.3 asssists 9.3 rebounds 2.3 steals 1.1 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html


Bird

30.3 points 7.9 assists 12.5 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.0 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../birdla01.html



Not only does LeBron already put up much better stats than Bird but when you look at it in terms of per 100 possessions the difference is even greater. LeBron is statistically an entire tier above Bird.



lol

rekt

Good, now account for how many more of those 100 TEAM possessions that Lebron HIMSELF actually uses as compared to Bird. Better yet, let's measure time of possession for each of them for an entire game. Yeah...I thought so.

Star players today - Lebron being the poster child - use FAR more of their team's possessions than older stars did, and they have the ball in their hands FAR more in terms of clock time. I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron had the ball in his hands in the halfcourt literally 25-50% more than Bird in terms of clock time (saying halfcourt here to exclude the time when James brings the ball upcourt).

[Duncan21formvp]

Bird is still considered better by most.

[TheCorporation]

Bird is still considered better by most.

The guy with less FMVP, MVP, points, rebounds, and assists? Nah

Sounds like he could be ranked over Mike though, since he waxed that ass 6-0

[Mr.GOAT2408]

Per 100 is nice and all but it doesn't tell you the full story, the Celtics were a machine largely because of Bird's ability to play on ball and off ball. LeBron would turn McHale into a damn spot up shooter which goes against what made him such an unstoppable force in the first place

Bird gets somewhat overrated in all-time talks but to think that LeBron is better

[Duncan21formvp]

Bird plays to win, Lebron plays for stats.

[tontoz]

Bird was 23 years old as a rookie (Lebron had 4 All-star appearances by then) and was out of the league at 35.

Lebron came in straight out of HS and has only missed significant time once that i can remember, last year with the groin. Longevity and durability have to count for something when comparing careers.

Prime Bird was really fun to watch though.

[BallsOut]

Bron is a better basketball player. I don't know how you, out of all people are saying otherwise, considering nearly all of your analysis on players is purely from a statistical standpoint on here.

He just is. He does everything Bird does, but better, outside of rebounding.

He scores more, he is a better passer, better defender, better two way player, etc.

Bird's shooting >>>>>> Lebron's shooting
Bird's passing > LeBron's passing
Bird's turnovers <<< LeBron's turnovers
Bird's rebounding > LeBron's rebounding
Bird's clutch ability >>>>>> LeBron's

He does everything better? Fk outta here.

[Duncan21formvp]

Bird's shooting >>>>>> Lebron's shooting
Bird's passing > LeBron's passing
Bird's turnovers <<< LeBron's turnovers
Bird's rebounding > LeBron's rebounding
Bird's clutch ability >>>>>> LeBron's

He does everything better? Fk outta here.

Good post!

[Whoah10115]

You MJ stans are an extremely retarded and insecure bunch. Worse than both LeBron and Kobe stans combined.

You sure about that?

[Bronbron23]

Career per 100 possession stats

LeBron

36.9 points 9.3 asssists 9.3 rebounds 2.3 steals 1.1 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html


Bird

30.3 points 7.9 assists 12.5 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.0 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../birdla01.html



Not only does LeBron already put up much better stats than Bird but when you look at it in terms of per 100 possessions the difference is even greater. LeBron is statistically an entire tier above Bird.



lol

rekt

Correct if im wrong but wouldn't most ball dominant players have better per 100 numbers? I get that it its comparing the same amount of possessions but a player who plays in a system with more movement would still have less stats per 100 than someone who is in a ball dominant system because alot of the possessions for the guy in the movement system are gonna be possessions where they're suppose to pass and cut to go screen or relocate. So alot of their possessions their not even looking to score or assists theyre basically making the hockey assist and then moving to wherever the play dictates.

The ball dominant guy on the other hand is getting more out of each possession stats wise because in most possessions hes looking to score or get an assist from someone cutting or spotting up.

Am i wrong?

[Bronbron23]

Career per 100 possession stats

LeBron

36.9 points 9.3 asssists 9.3 rebounds 2.3 steals 1.1 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html


Bird

30.3 points 7.9 assists 12.5 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.0 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../birdla01.html



Not only does LeBron already put up much better stats than Bird but when you look at it in terms of per 100 possessions the difference is even greater. LeBron is statistically an entire tier above Bird.



lol

rekt

Yeah just as i thought, harden and westbrook have higher pts and assists per 100 than bird even though bird is clearly a better passer than both and a better scorer than westbrook.

Comparing per 100 possessions to guys in a systems that emphasis alot of on and off ball movement to guys that dominate the ball isnt very accurate at all. Comparing lebron to guys like harden, luka and westbrook is much more accurate than Comparing him to guys like steph who plays in a system that has alot of movement similar to bird

[light]

Career per 100 possession stats

LeBron

36.9 points 9.3 asssists 9.3 rebounds 2.3 steals 1.1 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jamesle01.html


Bird

30.3 points 7.9 assists 12.5 rebounds 2.2 steals 1.0 blocks

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../birdla01.html



Not only does LeBron already put up much better stats than Bird but when you look at it in terms of per 100 possessions the difference is even greater. LeBron is statistically an entire tier above Bird.



lol

rekt

There isn't an argument.

This was settled many years ago.