Does anyone here think that Jordan is NOT the GOAT?

[CavaliersFTW]

Led the league in rebounds.


Led the league in blocks.


Those two guys would have no chance in the NBA in the modern era, they could only play in the 1960s.

Oh wait they led the league in rebounds and blocks last season? I stand corrected.

Finals MVP


Former 2x MVP





B-b-b-b-but white guys from the 60's = weak era?
??? I'm confused!?

[PHILA]

"I don't understand why people today can't objectively rank and compare players and teams from the 60's"

1960 Championship Celtics


!999 Championship Spurs




Who you got?


Obviously by the end of the 60's, the integration of African American's into the league was at a different level, and not surprisingly, the level of play on the court was also elevated. I believe by the mid 60's about half the league was AA.

How about the white 1986 Celtics who beat the athletic Atlanta Hawks in the playoffs as well as the Bulls & Jordan back to back years. Not to forget the Sampson/Olajuwon Rockets in the Finals.

[pauk]

I think he is GOAT, but not an undisputable GOAT.... due to Kareem & Bill Russell....

Russell won 11 championships as THE MAN... he had 5 x MVPs....

...and hypothetically speaking Russell was also at least a 9 x FMVP and 9 x Defensive Player of the Year....

Finals MVP didnt exist until 1969-70 somewhere.......
DPOY didnt exist until 1982-83 somewhere......

He would had most of those trophies to......... and hypothetically speaking he actually DID... because he was the best defensive player in that ERA... and was the FMVP of most of those championship runs....

11 x Championships
5 x MVP
~10 x FMVP
~10 x DPOY

thats alot to work with to try and surpass as a player dont you agree?

[CavaliersFTW]

Obviously racial stereotyping is still active in the hearts and minds of Americans. We've got some guy posting pics of a black team with a few white guys and a white team with a few black guys sayin "who ya got?"


I don't give a flippidy **** what color they are I'd rather know what the talent of the stars and supporting cast is, and then team chemistry/coaching etc. Race doesn't determine how good the team will be children

[La Frescobaldi]

What's ignorant? He asked why people who watch 60's basketball have a hard time receiving it. My answer is simple; 90% of NBA players today are black, and in the 60's, 90% of the players were white.


The 1960 Championship Celtics roster:

I apologize. I should have asked a more precise question, because 1960 is the last year of the 50s.

I didn't intend for this thread to turn into yet another endless debate about social evolution.

[Psileas]

Does anyone here think that Jordan is NOT the GOAT?

Now, if you insist, the thread has already given a positive answer. What there seems to exist in very small quantities is the number of people who believe someone else other than Jordan has no case of NOT being the GOAT, whereas there exist plenty of these people for Jordan. Of course, this category of people ("x is the GOAT, and it's very clear") usually functions with blind faith, therefore, you won't read many arguments worthy of remembering for their value.

Here's the list of quotes from people who think that X is the GOAT, bar none:

If magic didn't have HIV it wouldn't even be close

(That's not a definitive answer, though).

kaj is the goat sorry mj cumguzzlers

MJ let's be real

Mj is the Goat. Its that simple.

im sorry guys, but it's michael jordan.

uh.... MJ right now would be averaging 50ppg. Did you see him come back in the Wiz uniform playing AI, Kobe, Vince, and basically schooling the hell out of them (as much as a 40y/o can). Like that play where michael breaks Vince's ankle???

That's objective evidence right there MJ was goat. I give Kobe some cred for dropping 40 or so on MJ but he was 40 man. Let's see Kobe dropping 50 points or something on the NBA when he's 40. MJ had the best fundamentals period.

just like there are people out there who believes in aliens, or other stupid sh1t, yes there are people who think MJ is not the GOAT.

6 finals 6 rings as the number 1 option need i say more ???

Yea couple people here and there. Most sane people would agree that Jordan is the clear GOAT. Michael "The God" Jordan

All the other potential candidates were flawed.

Bird was a poor man defender (although an good team defender).

Magic was a terrible defender.

Russell was limited on offense; plus his team was massively stacked in his decade. (I do think Russell is the goat team leader/player)

KAJ wasn't even the best player on his team for the majority of his rings (2/6 fMVPs)

Once Jordan hit his peak, he absolutely destroyed the league. He left absolutely no success for his peers to latch onto.
-6/6 Final wins
-6/6 Finals MVP
-record for the most season wins.
-Perennial scoring champion
-perennial 1st-team defensive player
-a rare guard to have won Defensive MVP.

Hell, he even dominated all-star games and dunk contests.

Any perceived weakness in his game, he fixed. He not only fixed it, he'd make a strength out of it. In all the years I've followed the NBA, nobody was as driven to be perfect as Jordan was.

(That's the most detailed "explanation" any of these people has given for his choice, and of course it's still a matter of debate).

MJ is the GOAT PERIOD... end of discussion.

F*ckin idiots trying to argue otherwise.

MJ is GOAT.
don't get mad its just the truth.

[AlphaWolf24]

MJ or Kobe.....meh it's a toss up...same player in the same role...simialr results.




(and this whole "Mj changed the game of basketball"...no , Bird and Magic revelutionized BBAll....MJ moved shoes...)

[bdreason]

It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with opportunity. I'm not saying a player is better because they are black, I'm saying a league that takes a player regardless of skin color is better than a league that artificially fills its ranks with a certain race in order to appease its fanbase.



And please, don't tell me teams were happily or eagerly adding black players in the 60's. African Americans were added to the league out of NECESSITY. Teams simply couldn't compete against other teams who had black players (like Wilt), so they did what they HAD TO. Even today, 50 years later, the NBA still strives to find white players to market to their majority white fanbase. You want me to believe that a struggling NBA in the 60's wanted to try and market black stars to white people? Sorry, I don't buy that.



Again, the difference between the 60's and today is opportunity. If you can ball, I don't care if you live in Africa, there is a chance you can play in the NBA. If anything, time has proven that Basketball, as a sport, indeed favors the black athlete because of their size, speed, and strength. That's why 90% of the NBA today is black. You want to believe that a league that was artificially relegated to a majority of white players was as competitive?


The 60's was, without a doubt, a transitional era of the NBA, and I have no doubt that some African American players benefited from the circumstances. Interesting that Wilt could average 50ppg in 1961, but never approached 30ppg again after 1966, despite being only 29.

Honestly, the fact that someone would even act like the NBA was the same league in 1960 as it was in 1970 is ridiculous. I understand you want to legitimize Wilt's 50ppg by any means necessary, but even someone who has never seen a game in his life would question the circumstances involved in such an accomplishment.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Kareem is.

[ballashotcalla]

How many people have even seen Jordan during his whole career?

You can't say anything about anyone unless you've seen them through their whole career. Listening to the media or watching highlights doesn't really do anything.

[ILLsmak]

There is no GOAT. It depends on what you want, but Jordan has his argument.

-Smak

[CavaliersFTW]

There is no GOAT. It depends on what you want, but Jordan has his argument.

-Smak

This.

[Hyperephania]

Toss up between Russell and Jordan for me really, but others also make a case(Magic, Kareem...).
On-topic Quote:

"... my grandson, sitting at the dinner table amid all the chatter and laughter, coughed and then said with that wonderful childlike innocence, "Grandpa, I have a question to ask you." The table grew silent. "Grandpa were you as good as Michael Jordan?"
We all laughed expect for my grandson. He looked around with that "What's so funny about that?" look. I laughed harder than anyone else and got up from the table and immediately took him out of my will.
In my most half-serious face I said to my grandson, "You've got the question backwards!"

So Russell definitely sees it as arguable

[returnofthemack]

just like there are people out there who believes in aliens, or other stupid sh1t, yes there are people who think MJ is not the GOAT.

your stupid for not believing in aliens. how can you look at the sky and think we humans are all there is. the universe has no bounds. your brain on the other hand.....


btw MJ is goat

[returnofthemack]

How many people have even seen Jordan during his whole career?

You can't say anything about anyone unless you've seen them through their whole career. Listening to the media or watching highlights doesn't really do anything.

i watched jordan win his rings. all of them. i dont think there is any team in teh history of the nba that could stand in the way of those bulls teams. they were the best and jordan was the leader.