ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #14. Scottie Pippen vs Elgin Baylor.

[Kblaze8855]

26. Webber
25. Dantley
24. King
23. Cunningham
22. Worthy
21. Jerry Lucas
20.Paul Pierce
19.Dolph Schayes
18.Paul Arizin
17.Dennis Rodman
16.Dominique Wilkins
15. Elvin Hayes
14. Kevin Mchale
13. ?





7 time all star
7 time all NBA(3 first teams)
6 time NBA champion
10 time all defensive team(8 first teams)
Led the NBA in steals in 1994
Career 16/6/5 player with individual season highs of 22/9/7(3 steals and 1 block)



This being his third vote scottie is past the quotes.




11 time all star
10 time all NBA first team
Top 3 in MVP voting 4 times
Top 5 in scoring for 10 seasons in a row peaking at #2 to wilt twice
Holds NBA finals record for single game scoring(61 points)
Career 27/14/4 player with individual season highs of 38/20/5




I wanted to give you one of Jerry Wests gushing with love quotes but I felt another Laker might not be taken as serious. So...

[Kblaze8855]

For such a storied player its hard to point out the accolades for Elgin. he never led the league in...anything(he did lead the playoffs in scoring 4 times though).

Never won an award other than ROY and an ASG mvp.

And lost in the finals like 8 times. At one point he had lost like 4 game 7s to the Celtics by a total of 7 points...

Hes literally a couple shots from most people putting him in the top 6-10 all time.

[D.J.]

Elgin Baylor


Even though I'd rather have Scottie on my team. But you don't necessarily take the better individual talent. Pippen provided more mismatches and was more versatile, especially on D.

Baylor was just a flat out more dominant individual talent. These are his accolades:


-10x All-NBA 1st team
-7x Top 5 in MVP voting
-4x Top 3 in MVP voting
-Runner up for MVP in '63
-Career 27.4 PPG
-3x 30+ PPG
-Peak of 38.3 PPG
-2x runner up for scoring title
-8x Top 5 in PPG
-4x Top 5 in RPG
-6x Top 10 in APG
-Led league in PER in '61
-4x runner up for PER


Even though I'd rather have Pippen on my team for his two-way play and his dominant perimeter D, Elgin was just the better individual talent and also more dominant offensively. Scottie's D(as great as it was) isn't enough for me to put him above Elgin.

[Smoke117]

This is one of those bob Cousy vs Dwyane Wade match ups. If were talking reality Scottie Pippen would run circles around Elgin baylor in modern basketball and frankly because i'm just biased, Scottie Pippen.

[Fatal9]

I'm kind of always a little skeptical of Baylor's impact.

Before Jerry West became "Jerry West", the Lakers won 33, 25 and 36 games. Had their best season the year he missed half the season due to military service. And for whatever reason the best Laker teams (record wise) always end up coming when one of them would miss significant amount of time, so I don't know if Baylor was as good as a Scottie with fitting his game together with another star. Maybe it's because from what I've seen of Elgin, he's a guy who kind of needs to control/pound the ball to score (would have been really interesting to see his turnover numbers), not necessarily the best fit along another perimeter star (Pippen controlled the ball too but he does it not so much to score but to run the offense, would have probably been a great fit with a catch and shoot guy like West). Then looking at his missed games near the end of his career...Lakers seemed better without him in '70 (28-26 with, 18-10 without) and finally in his final year, he leaves the team and they go on the longest winning streak in NBA history though he wasn't really "Elgin Baylor" by that point. Just a lot of questionable years through out his career like that.

As 60s continued and league wide efficiency rose, Elgin's didn't...would take 26 shots to average 27 in some years, just took a lot of shots and often shot below league average (I don't doubt his all around game though, seems like a beast on the boards and a pretty good passer). After '63 he shot at or over league average just twice (and barely. more than 3% lower in some years, difference is even larger if you compare just to his teams alone), and this is at a time it really wasn't hard for star players to shoot better than league average at all because they were already so low...and he was playing next to a guy having no problem shooting lights out.

He has better stats but I don't know if he necessarily had Pippen's impact. Obviously this is based on assumptions so I don't really feel strongly either way for this topic. But I'll give Scottie the nod, seems like he fits better with stars (offensively at least), more versatile, more durable (lot of people say Elgin wasn't the same after like '65 when he hurt his knee) and ultimately had the more successful career.

[MasterDurant24]

This is one of those bob Cousy vs Dwyane Wade match ups. If were talking reality Scottie Pippen would run circles around Elgin baylor in modern basketball and frankly because i'm just biased, Scottie Pippen.

No, Elgin Baylor was actually an athletic great scorer and is wayyyy better than Cousy. Pippen didn't dominate as much as Baylor, while Cousy didn't dominate as much as Wade.

[Dragonyeuw]

I want Scottie in the top ten forwards, so....Scottie. The guy is criminally underrated.

[RobertdeMeijer]

During Pippen's career, I never felt like he was going to be seen as one of the all-time greats.
During the 90's, I'd make lists of the best small-forwards in the league, and it was really hard for me to place him at number one. He wasn't as good at Jordan (the best SG), he wasn't as good as Larry Bird was. Heck, I recall placing Grant Hill higher than him eventually, and considered putting Detlef Schrempf, Glen Rice, Chris Mullin and Dominique Wilkins ahead of him at times.

Now, I wasn't there, but Baylor was the opposite: without doubt the best small forward during the 60s, pretty much every year.


But time goes on, and like the Brazil nut effect, the biggest end up coming out on top. Scottie Pippen just keeps popping up when I read about and discuss greatness. Perhaps the best "Robin" ever, perhaps the best point-forward ever, perhaps the best perimeter defender ever, part of the perhaps best NBA team ever, best of the not-so-perhaps best team ever anywhere (Dream Team), perhaps best all-round player, perhaps most underrated player ever, perhaps most underpaid player ever. That's alot of big "perhaps"es.
Two bonus points: He's part of Bill Simmons' wine cellar team. And he could dunk from the free-throw line.

Now Elgin. He has alot of first-team selections (but Pippen actually deserves just as many), alot of finals losses (while Pippen has wins), and was the first to play above the rim. To me, that's his legacy, and that's why nowadays, I find myself thinking about Scottie Pippen more than Elgin Baylor.

[PTB Fan]

Elgin Baylor.

Dude's one of the most remarkable offensive talents the game of basketball had ever seen, who was one of the finest clutch performers in the post season and finals, one of the 10 finest scoring machines ever and arguably most productive offensive force ever, one of the best all-around players, rebounders etc.

Lots of "greatest" and "best" are tied up to his legacy. Besides the already above mentioned, Elgin has a lot of "first" as well. First high flyer, first guy to play comfortably above the rim, first dominant perimeter player etc.

However, there're some negative points. 1)Efficiency:He was around league average since 65, when he wasn't the same player that he was before.

2)never won a MVP/FMVP:largely duo to Russell and Wilt, even though he had some good chances to. And probably big men were seen as more valuable back then

3)no titles:although he has a championship ring, he never actually won one, although he was very very close to get one.


Still, enough for me to put him much higher than Pippen. Give me, Elgin Baylor with no hesitation.

[Pushxx]

HAHAHAH this ordering ISH did is a joke.

Bob McAdoo above Pippen and McHale?!

OMG

[Legends66NBA7]

HAHAHAH this ordering ISH did is a joke.

Bob McAdoo above Pippen and McHale?!

OMG

I know right ?

Rookie of the Year, 1x time MVP and a runner up for MVP on 2 occassions to Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

Led the league in scoring 3 straight years, putting up 30/15/2/1/3 on 55%, 34.5/14/2/1/2 on 51%, 31/12/4/1/2 on 49%.

Yeah, "OMG"....


But for real, I think nobody voted for him in the inital voting. He's probably going to be in the center rankings. He's your classic center-forward like Moses Malone.

[OldSchoolBBall]

This is one of those bob Cousy vs Dwyane Wade match ups. If were talking reality Scottie Pippen would run circles around Elgin baylor in modern basketball and frankly because i'm just biased, Scottie Pippen.

lmao

[Fatal9]

HAHAHAH this ordering ISH did is a joke.

Bob McAdoo above Pippen and McHale?!

OMG

McAdoo and Amare were considered centers (even though they are PFs) because that's what they were listed as on all-NBA teams.

[PTB Fan]

McAdoo above Pippen, Big E and Baylor maybe in peak play, with an accent on maybe which is still very arguable.

[G.O.A.T]

McAdoo above Pippen, Big E and Baylor maybe in peak play, with an accent on maybe which is still very arguable.

McAdoo qualifies as a center because his best seasons came while he was playing center. Same with Duncan as a PF, Amare as a Center (the weirdest one)