Gobert is the best center in the NBA now

[Xiao Yao You]

You mean like listing his actual achievements instead of making up arbitrary ones?

Yeah that works.

I don't consider making an all-star team over someone more deserving an achievement. Gobert should have made it last year and two years before that

[Xiao Yao You]

I really like Gobert. Has a huge impact. Just difficult to be the best player at your position when you can't be the focal point as a scorer. He averaged like 11/11 in the playoffs while blocking 2.6 shots per game. He actually played slightly less minutes in the playoffs.

I'm not even trying to be biased. I think Embiid talent wise is right there with Jokic. I won't argue against it. Jokic just averaged 25/13/8/1/1 on 59% TS with only 2.6 TO's per game and was 1 game away from the WCF. He helped Denver finished 2nd in the Western Conference with no other All-Stars. Murray has that potential .. but he isn't there yet. Embiid had Harris, Butler, Simmons etc. Gobert has Mitchell. What Jokic did this year was really underrated.

The Jazz offense is built around him. Others score because of him. He's the most efficient scorer in the league. Best defensive player. Why is it ok to just play offense?

[Xiao Yao You]

I just don't see the argument for Gobert above Jokic. Even defensively Jokic improved alot this year. He was really good in the playoffs, specifically vs S.A. Gobert struggled defensively being forced to switch vs Houston. In game 4 Utah's only win Gobert played 24 minutes and scored 4 points.

Jokic has the ability to carry an entire offense. Gobert can't do that. While Gobert can anchor a defense, Jokic is no longer a terrible defender. The gap offensively has a far bigger impact than the gap defensively.

Gobert was fine against Houston. They lost because of crapy offense not their defense. Now they have one of the top offenses in the league to go with one of the best defenses.

[NuggetsFan]

The Jazz offense is built around him. Others score because of him. He's the most efficient scorer in the league. Best defensive player. Why is it ok to just play offense?

This just isn't true tho. You eventually need to create your own offense and not just finish around the basket. Volume matters. You need to factor that in. What's more valuable someone scoring 15 PPG on 65% TS or someone scoring 36 PPG on 57% TS

Utah won 1 game in the playoffs. Gobert played 24 minutes and scored 4 points. He averaged 31.8 MPG in the regular season vs 30.4 MPG in the playoffs. Your best players tend to get up in minutes. Like Jokic went from 31 to 39 for example.

It's not ok to just play offense. Jokic plays defense too. Gobert can't carry an offense like Jokic or other superstars can. He can set great screens, finish around the basket, and is an elite finisher which is very valuable and why he's highly ranked along with his elite defense.

[Xiao Yao You]

This just isn't true tho. You eventually need to create your own offense and not just finish around the basket. Volume matters. You need to factor that in. What's more valuable someone scoring 15 PPG on 65% TS or someone scoring 36 PPG on 57% TS

Utah won 1 game in the playoffs. Gobert played 24 minutes and scored 4 points. He averaged 31.8 MPG in the regular season vs 30.4 MPG in the playoffs. Your best players tend to get up in minutes. Like Jokic went from 31 to 39 for example.

It's not ok to just play offense. Jokic plays defense too. Gobert can't carry an offense like Jokic or other superstars can. He can set great screens, finish around the basket, and is an elite finisher which is very valuable and why he's highly ranked along with his elite defense.

You have to factor in the points others score because of him which was a dozen to 15 points a game. Forget exactly. The Jazz have never built a team around Rudy. We got a brief glimpse of what that would look like at the end of Hayward's last season with a wounded Hill, Joe Johnson's last hurrah and the corpse of Boris Diaw. They finally have a team built around him now. They have 3 scorers around him. Stop them or give up a dunk to Gobert or a 3 to one of 3 or 4 guys that can actually hit an open shot. No more Bricky or Favors weighing down the offense. Picky your poison and good luck stopping them now!

[fourkicks44]

This just isn't true tho. You eventually need to create your own offense and not just finish around the basket. Volume matters. You need to factor that in. What's more valuable someone scoring 15 PPG on 65% TS or someone scoring 36 PPG on 57% TS

Utah won 1 game in the playoffs. Gobert played 24 minutes and scored 4 points. He averaged 31.8 MPG in the regular season vs 30.4 MPG in the playoffs. Your best players tend to get up in minutes. Like Jokic went from 31 to 39 for example.

It's not ok to just play offense. Jokic plays defense too. Gobert can't carry an offense like Jokic or other superstars can. He can set great screens, finish around the basket, and is an elite finisher which is very valuable and why he's highly ranked along with his elite defense.

Hmm... I agree it is harder to be the main man with limited offense.

But Bill Russell did it. Considered by many to be one of the GOATS.

The fact is Jokic, Gobert and Embiid are by far the best three centers in the world ATM.

[Xiao Yao You]

Hmm... I agree it is harder to be the main man with limited offense.

But Bill Russell did it. Considered by many to be one of the GOATS.

The fact is Jokic, Gobert and Embiid are by far the best three centers in the world ATM.

you forgot Cousins and his multiple all-star appearances!

[NuggetsFan]

25/13/8/1/1 2.6 TO's .596 TS% 1 game away from the WCF.
11/10/1/1/3 1.8 TO's .665 TS% lost in 5 in the playoffs.

20/11/7/1.4/.7 3.1 TO's .589 TS%
16/13/2/.8/2.3 1.6 TO's .682 TS%

Both have elite advanced stats across the board. Nuggets won 54 games with Jokic leading the team in PPG, APG, RPG, SPG. Utah won 50 games with Gobert leading his team in RPG/BPG. Mitchell scored almost 8 more points a game. Utah was 2nd in defensive rating and 15th in offensive rating. Denver ranked 6th in offense rating and 10th in defense.

I just don't see the argument for Gobert above Jokic. Jokic can hit 3's, FT's, handle the ball, make any pass on the floor like a PG, great on the glass, can work down low. He was tied for the best DRtg on the Nuggets this season. 2nd best DBPM on the team with 3.8. Led them in DWS's at 4.3. So it's not even like Jokic is bad defensively.

[Xiao Yao You]

25/13/8/1/1 2.6 TO's .596 TS% 1 game away from the WCF.
11/10/1/1/3 1.8 TO's .665 TS% lost in 5 in the playoffs.

20/11/7/1.4/.7 3.1 TO's .589 TS%
16/13/2/.8/2.3 1.6 TO's .682 TS%

Both have elite advanced stats across the board. Nuggets won 54 games with Jokic leading the team in PPG, APG, RPG, SPG. Utah won 50 games with Gobert leading his team in RPG/BPG. Mitchell scored almost 8 more points a game. Utah was 2nd in defensive rating and 15th in offensive rating. Denver ranked 6th in offense rating and 10th in defense.

I just don't see the argument for Gobert above Jokic. Jokic can hit 3's, FT's, handle the ball, make any pass on the floor like a PG, great on the glass, can work down low. He was tied for the best DRtg on the Nuggets this season. 2nd best DBPM on the team with 3.8. Led them in DWS's at 4.3. So it's not even like Jokic is bad defensively.

weren't the Nuggets good even without Jokic? The Jazz have been a terrible team without Rudy. He's taken them from the lottery to anywhere between competitive to good to great depending on the personnel around him

[NuggetsFan]

Hmm... I agree it is harder to be the main man with limited offense.

But Bill Russell did it. Considered by many to be one of the GOATS.

The fact is Jokic, Gobert and Embiid are by far the best three centers in the world ATM.

I mean Bill Russell played in an entirely different era/league. Not really comparable.

I agree with those 3 being the best C's tho. Towns should be included as well. I just think Jokic is above Gobert after last year. Maybe that changes next year but as of right now given how last year went I don't see the argument for Gobert. Yeah Gobert sets good screens and helps others score but Jokic is literally like our PG while being our best scorer.

[Xiao Yao You]

I mean Bill Russell played in an entirely different era/league. Not really comparable.

I agree with those 3 being the best C's tho. Towns should be included as well. I just think Jokic is above Gobert after last year. Maybe that changes next year but as of right now given how last year went I don't see the argument for Gobert. Yeah Gobert sets good screens and helps others score but Jokic is literally like our PG while being our best scorer.

When Towns can carry a team than he belongs. Until than he is Cousins without the issues.

The offense and defense is built around Gobert. He's carried them since December of 2014. They were tanking. He ruined their grand plans. Can't wait to see what he does with one of the best offenses in the league around him now!

[NuggetsFan]

weren't the Nuggets good even without Jokic? The Jazz have been a terrible team without Rudy. He's taken them from the lottery to anywhere between competitive to good to great depending on the personnel around him

I mean the Nuggets haven't won a playoff series in forever. Since like '08-09 until Jokic came in and averaged an almost triple double vs the Spurs in round 1. As I pointed out above .. he literally leads our team in 4/5 major stats. He only missed 2 games last year.

Nuggets I wanna say were near the top of the league in terms of missed games due to injury. Harris played 57, Barton played 43, Millsap played 70. At one point we were missing 3 starters.

We won 33 wins Jokic's rookie year, 40 wins the next year, 46 wins the year after, 54 wins last season. Each season Jokic's role/minutes grew and we saw the team get better and better.

[Xiao Yao You]

I mean the Nuggets haven't won a playoff series in forever. Since like '08-09 until Jokic came in and averaged an almost triple double vs the Spurs in round 1. As I pointed out above .. he literally leads our team in 4/5 major stats. He only missed 2 games last year.

Nuggets I wanna say were near the top of the league in terms of missed games due to injury. Harris played 57, Barton played 43, Millsap played 70. At one point we were missing 3 starters.

We won 33 wins Jokic's rookie year, 40 wins the next year, 46 wins the year after, 54 wins last season. Each season Jokic's role/minutes grew and we saw the team get better and better.

The Jazz like Denver are built around Gobert offensively. They just do it in different ways. Defensively the Jazz are as well. He missed one game. The last game because it meant nothing. Rest. Gobert has gotten better every year. The Jazz haven't because of changing personnel. If they were a smart franchise and had kept Millsap in his prime instead of tanking who knows what might have been

[ImKobe]

It's up to Jokic and Embiid to prove it.

Looked like the best big man in the world when being defended by a 22 y.o Turner and a bunch of midgets under FIBA rules

Embiid outplays him H2H and Jokic did work on him too.

[Kblaze8855]

Bill Russell was like fourth in the NBA in assists at one point and was eventually the teams literal coach. Can’t really compare a guy like that to Gobert. There is no modern equivalent of what Bill Russell meant to the Celtics.

And whatever anybody thinks unless there is health to consider at the moment Rudy is not going to be picked over Jokic and Embiid by many of the people trusted to make that decision.

Them beating team USA means as much as when Carlos Arroyo, sarunas jasikevicius, Vspan, Vlade and Peja did it in various years. And all the teams they beat had better players than we just sent.

02 Paul Pierce would be the best player on this team. So would 04 Duncan.

It really doesn’t come down to individual talent anymore. We watched a team with prime Kobe, Wade, Lebron, Paul and so on barely win. In 2000 they won by a single shot with a way more talented team than we just sent. It’s a different game and that should be clear enough by now.


Kevin Garnett, Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Ray Allen and so on in 2000 literally won by a missed three-pointer at the buzzer up two. And it wasn’t even the gold medal game. It was against sarunas jasikevicius, Darius songiala, and some people most never heard of.

If a team with like seven Hall of Famer’s can be that close to losing to a team with about 1 1/2 NBA players this group of random guys losing to a team with several shouldn’t be that shocking. And it certainly doesn’t mean anybody on the team is anything exceptional. Gobert may be exceptional but he doesn’t prove it beating the worst group of pros ever(aside from the CBA all stars sent during the 99 lockout).

Most of the nba could beat this team. Hell all of the nba. Knowing how to play together matters. I’m not sure some of the college Olympic teams from when people stayed in school couldn’t beat this team.

Gobert and Fornier did it. You betting against 84 Jordan, Ewing, and Mullin?