Everyone talks about 2011... but what about 2010?

[LeCramp]

You call him disingenuous and you post this horse shit drivel?

Wade, when healthy, was just as good with LeBron as he was without him.

Kyrie had some of his best ever seasons WITH LeBron.

Mo Williams had his best ever season with LeBron.

Big Z had his career season with LeBron.

Kuzma and Ingram had their best seasons with LeBron.

I could just keep going.

As for Bosh, he went from being the #1 option and averaging 20/9/2/1 on 49% to 17/7/2/1 on 51% as the #3 option in 3 fewer minutes per game as well.



If you want to talk to players marginalizing others with ZERO context, lets look your lover, shall we?

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.


And you talk about being a coach, while displaying the basketball intelligence of an autistic chipmunk. Ignore all context of the injuries that LeBron's teammates have faced over the years and claim that LeBron is the reason why those teams under performed. Makes sense. Not to mention the fact that LeBron faced better competition in his last 3 Finals, than Jordan ever did in his entire career.

Funny, how you claim LeBron is a coward, while he's statistically one of the GOAT clutch performers and your idol, dad killer, was such a cowardly shit that he retired multiple times when he knew he was going to get humiliated. Quit the second time when Pip left, 'cause the coward knew that there was ZERO chance of him winning without Pippen (1-9).

Lets not forget his massive chokes in games 4 and 5 in '89, which conveniently get swept under the rug, "coach".

All that and nobody cares? you are a sad peasant

[3ball]

Wade, when healthy, was just as good with LeBron as he was without him.

Kyrie had some of his best ever seasons WITH LeBron.

Mo Williams had his best ever season with LeBron.

Big Z had his career season with LeBron.

Kuzma and Ingram had their best seasons with LeBron.

Who cares if various guys played well with lebron - many guys DIDN'T play well with him:

DRose, Jamison, Love, Bosh, Hughes, Rodney Hood, Crowder - all disappeared next to Bron.... Even Shaq went from 18/8 in 2009 (and all-star MVP), to 12/7 with Lebron in 10'.

^^^ And that's the point - many guys didn't play well with him...

The reality is that only shooters can excel next to Lebron's skillset, which puts a ceiling on his teams and brand of ball (3/9), and makes guys not want to play with him (they fear becoming spot-up shooter)

As for Bosh, he went from being the #1 option and averaging 20/9/2/1 on 49% to 17/7/2/1 on 51% as the #3 option in 3 fewer minutes per game as well.

Numerous teams throughout history had 3 guys averaging 20 ppg - i.e. KD didn't require Klay to average below 20 ppg because KD didn't dominate the ball and take up all the ball-time

Otoh, Love and Bosh went from superstars to role players because that's the caliber of basketball that lebron-ball yields

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

Ron Harper was already a 7 ppg player in 1995 before MJ came back - so he's off your list

And your stats for Pippen, Horace, and BJ alongside Jordan include rookie and young player stats, which you compare to their peak season without MJ - that's apples and oranges (rookie stats vs peak stats)

The point is that their PEAK numbers alongside MJ match their peak numbers without MJ (i.e. they reached full capacity next to MJ), while Lebron's teammates didn't get anywhere near their peak alongside Lebron (they played below capacity next to bron)

Not to mention the fact that LeBron faced better competition in his last 3 Finals, than Jordan ever did in his entire career.

His recent Finals have been 3-star vs. 3-star format, so of course those teams will look better than the 2-star format and teams of the 90's..

and the current league has returned to a 2-star format, so today's teams won't be as good "comp" either..

It's funny because even if you remove a couple of Lebron's Finals losses because you deem the matchup unfair, he still has 3 or 4 Finals losses.. ..

And no star player that has prime Kyrie and prime Love plus a bunch of experienced vets and great shooters can say they're overmatched, especially when the "goat" is supposed to make up small gaps and certainly never gives up 35 ppg on 56% to his matchup

Lebron is the reason why those teams under performed. Makes sense.

It's his weak shooting:

Lebron shot 36.7% on jumpshots in the 2010 regular season (the year of the thread title), compared to Jordan's 50%+ during a 126 regular season stretch from 90-92' (confirmed data)


Summary:

Lebron shot as low as 32.5% on jumpers in 2004, up to 42.5% in 2013, while MJ shot over 50% on jumpers in his prime, and high 40's during the 2nd three-peat (stats here).

The jumpshooting stats matter because only great jumpshooters get double-teamed - teams meet drivers at the rim with multiple defenders, thereby not needing to get the ball out of their hands - but the only defense against a hot shooter is to get the ball out of their hands

So Lebron's lack of shooting allows opposing coaches to stay at home and lock down teammates - Stan Van Gundy said he didn't need to double lebron in the 09' ECF and that's how he shut down his teammates - so Lebron's weak shooting and lack of double-teams is a massive flaw in his game.. Similarly, the 15' Warriors doubled Lebron a paltry 5.4% of possessions.
.

[Turbo Slayer]

LeBron top 5 in my book y'all haters need to appreciate greatness just daying. He is a once in a lifetime player. So just suck it up. Period.

[aj1987]

Who cares if various guys played well with lebron - many guys DIDN'T play well with him:

DRose, Jamison, Love, Bosh, Hughes, Rodney Hood, Crowder - all disappeared next to Bron.... Even Shaq went from 18/8 in 2009 (and all-star MVP), to 12/7 with Lebron in 10'.

^^^ And that's the point - many guys didn't play well with him...

The reality is that only shooters can excel next to Lebron's skillset, which puts a ceiling on his teams and brand of ball (3/9), and makes guys not want to play with him (they fear becoming spot-up shooter)




Numerous teams throughout history had 3 guys averaging 20 ppg - i.e. KD didn't require Klay to average below 20 ppg because KD didn't dominate the ball and take up all the ball-time

Otoh, Love and Bosh went from superstars to role players because that's the caliber of basketball that lebron-ball yields



Ron Harper was already a 7 ppg player in 1995 before MJ came back - so he's off your list

And your stats for Pippen, Horace, and BJ alongside Jordan include rookie and young player stats, which you compare to their peak season without MJ - that's apples and oranges (rookie stats vs peak stats)

The point is that their PEAK numbers alongside MJ match their peak numbers without MJ (i.e. they reached full capacity next to MJ), while Lebron's teammates didn't get anywhere near their peak alongside Lebron (they played below capacity next to bron)



His recent Finals have been 3-star vs. 3-star format, so of course those teams will look better than the 2-star format and teams of the 90's..

and the current league has returned to a 2-star format, so today's teams won't be as good "comp" either..

It's funny because even if you remove a couple of Lebron's Finals losses because you deem the matchup unfair, he still has 3 or 4 Finals losses.. ..

And no star player that has prime Kyrie and prime Love plus a bunch of experienced vets and great shooters can say they're overmatched, especially when the "goat" is supposed to make up small gaps and certainly never gives up 35 ppg on 56% to his matchup



It's his weak shooting:

Lebron shot 36.7% on jumpshots in the 2010 regular season (the year of the thread title), compared to Jordan's 50%+ during a 126 regular season stretch from 90-92' (confirmed data)


Summary:

Lebron shot as low as 32.5% on jumpers in 2004, up to 42.5% in 2013, while MJ shot over 50% on jumpers in his prime, and high 40's during the 2nd three-peat (stats here).

The jumpshooting stats matter because only great jumpshooters get double-teamed - teams meet drivers at the rim with multiple defenders, thereby not needing to get the ball out of their hands - but the only defense against a hot shooter is to get the ball out of their hands

So Lebron's lack of shooting allows opposing coaches to stay at home and lock down teammates - Stan Van Gundy said he didn't need to double lebron in the 09' ECF and that's how he shut down his teammates - so Lebron's weak shooting and lack of double-teams is a massive flaw in his game.. Similarly, the 15' Warriors doubled Lebron a paltry 5.4% of possessions.
.

You call him disingenuous and you post this horse shit drivel?

Wade, when healthy, was just as good with LeBron as he was without him.

Kyrie had some of his best ever seasons WITH LeBron.

Mo Williams had his best ever season with LeBron.

Big Z had his career season with LeBron.

Kuzma and Ingram had their best seasons with LeBron.

I could just keep going.

As for Bosh, he went from being the #1 option and averaging 20/9/2/1 on 49% to 17/7/2/1 on 51% as the #3 option in 3 fewer minutes per game as well.



If you want to talk to players marginalizing others with ZERO context, lets look your lover, shall we?

Jordan marginalized his teammates and ALWAYS reduced their PPG, APG, and RPG. Players put up better numbers WITHOUT Jordan than they did WITH him. Case in point:

Horace Grant from '88-93 - 12/8
Horace Grant in 1994 - 15/11

Toni Kukoc from '96-'98 - 13/4/4
Toni Kukoc in 1999 - 19/7/5

BJ from '90-'93 - 9/3
BJ in 1994 - 15/4

Harper from '87-'94 - 19/5/5
Harper with Jordan - 8/3/3
Harper in '99 - 11/5/3

I'll add one more of Jordan's teammates:

Scottie Pippen from '88-'93 - 16/7/5
Scottie Pippen from '94-'95 - 22/8/5

FACT: MJ reduced his teammates' PPG, RPG, and APG.


And you talk about being a coach, while displaying the basketball intelligence of an autistic chipmunk. Ignore all context of the injuries that LeBron's teammates have faced over the years and claim that LeBron is the reason why those teams under performed. Makes sense. Not to mention the fact that LeBron faced better competition in his last 3 Finals, than Jordan ever did in his entire career.

Funny, how you claim LeBron is a coward, while he's statistically one of the GOAT clutch performers and your idol, dad killer, was such a cowardly shit that he retired multiple times when he knew he was going to get humiliated. Quit the second time when Pip left, 'cause the coward knew that there was ZERO chance of him winning without Pippen (1-9).

Lets not forget his massive chokes in games 4 and 5 in '89, which conveniently get swept under the rug, "coach".

All that and nobody cares? you are a sad peasant

You cared enough to reply to my post, you [COLOR="Black"]f[/COLOR]ucking retard.

[sportjames23]

Always someone seething over 3/9....

[STATUTORY]

in 2009 he managed to lose to a team led by Dwight Howard of all people as the number 1 seed and overwhelming favorite

guy is a flat out CLOWN

[warriorfan]

in 2009 he managed to lose to a team led by Dwight Howard of all people as the number 1 seed and overwhelming favorite

guy is a flat out CLOWN

While Orlando was missing their second best player, All Star Jameer Nelson.