How amazing is it that Kobe was as efficient as Duncan?

[superduper]

Career TS:

Kobe: .550%
Timmy: .551%

Kobe, a guard who dominated from the perimeter, was as efficient as THE best PF big man of all time.

What an efficient man

[Mr Feeny]

But he isn't nearly as efficient as Lebron Given that Lebron does everything other than scoring better than Kobe does, it's nice to see you concede that he's also a better scorer than Kobe since he's more efficient and averages more ppg.

Case closed

[LAmbruh]

But he isn't nearly as efficient as Lebron Given that Lebron does everything other than scoring better than Kobe does, it's nice to see you concede that he's also a better scorer than Kobe since he's more efficient and averages more ppg.

Case closed

[ScalsFan21]

I'll tell you this. Both guys have played in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals in their primes, shot like complete garbage from the field, and got away with it because their teams picked them up. Yet only Kobe gets any blame for it.

I get why (because Kobe is overrated and Duncan is slightly less overrated), but Duncan had such a fortunate career arc. Falls ass-backwards into a great situation with a great coach because of the Robinson injury. Name me one other consensus #1 draft pick who was so lucky right out of the gate to be placed into a ready-made title situation.

Duncan is top ten all-time and a winning player, but he's barely better than Kobe, and it's an insult to compare him to the MDE.

[iamgine]

More like, "Yikes, Duncan was only as efficient as Kobe?"

[Mr Feeny]

I'll tell you this. Both guys have played in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals in their primes, shot like complete garbage from the field, and got away with it because their teams picked them up. Yet only Kobe gets any blame for it.

I get why (because Kobe is overrated and Duncan is slightly less overrated), but Duncan had such a fortunate career arc. Falls ass-backwards into a great situation with a great coach because of the Robinson injury. Name me one other consensus #1 draft pick who was so lucky right out of the gate to be placed into a ready-made title situation.

Duncan is top ten all-time and a winning player, but he's barely better than Kobe, and it's an insult to compare him to the MDE.

Duncan is a lot better than Kobe. There's a reason he's in every top 10 GOAT list while Kobe is 12th-15th.

[ScalsFan21]

Duncan is a lot better than Kobe. There's a reason he's in every top 10 GOAT list while Kobe is 12th-15th.

I agree with those placements, I just don't think the leap from 10th to 12th-15th is enormous, given the players who make up that tier. They're all very good with multiple rings.

But make no mistake. If Duncan is top ten, he's maybe 10th and no higher. The man was more or less KG in a better situation. He has a no case over Michael or LeBron, and a shitty case over Shaq, Magic, Bird, KAJ, Wilt, Russell. A strong argument can be made that Hakeem > as well, despite only 2 chips.

Duncan had ATG help for his entire career. He just never shared the court in his prime with another single player who was on par with him once Admiral tailed off. So it doesn't get noticed in the way that, say, Kobe not even being the best player on the majority of his title teams does.

[Horatio33]

Kobe had the greatest coach ever for every season bar one of his prime AND rode the coattails of perhaps the most dominant centre ever to his first three rings.

Shut the fu ck up

[Objectivity]

GOAT hands down

[AirFederer]

What about defense?

[rmt]

I'll tell you this. Both guys have played in a Game 7 of the NBA Finals in their primes, shot like complete garbage from the field, and got away with it because their teams picked them up. Yet only Kobe gets any blame for it.

I get why (because Kobe is overrated and Duncan is slightly less overrated), but Duncan had such a fortunate career arc. Falls ass-backwards into a great situation with a great coach because of the Robinson injury. Name me one other consensus #1 draft pick who was so lucky right out of the gate to be placed into a ready-made title situation.

Duncan is top ten all-time and a winning player, but he's barely better than Kobe, and it's an insult to compare him to the MDE.

Both teams' coaches, players and the media saw it differently from you:

With his unique multidimensional talent, Duncan depleted and dissected the Pistons, collecting 25 points and 11 rebounds. He was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

"Rasheed was strapped all game," Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot."

http://web.archive.org/web/200902192...SAS/recap.html


In contrast:

"Ron Artest was the most valuable player tonight," Phil Jackson said. "He brought life to our team."
http://www.webcitation.org/5wfrwRtjY

"I wanted it so, so bad," Bryant said. "On top of that, I was on E. Man, I was really, really tired, and the more I tried to push, the more it kept getting away from me."

"I wanted it so bad, and sometimes when you want it so bad, it slips away from you. My guys picked me up." - Kobe

https://www.csmonitor.com/From-the-n...s-the-sweetest


I don't see the reason to hate on 2 ATGs for these performances - they were against all-time great defenses (see the recent thread on greatest defensive teams). Iirc, mid 2000s Pistons garnered a lot of votes (and is backed up by stats) - multiple time DPOY Ben Wallace (5 fouls), Rasheed (5) and McDyess (4) ain't chopped liver. Larry Brown's defensive focus was on Duncan, and he put them all in foul trouble in Game 7.

[tpols]

Kobe at least was man enough to admit it.

[rmt]

I get why (because Kobe is overrated and Duncan is slightly less overrated), but Duncan had such a fortunate career arc. Falls ass-backwards into a great situation with a great coach because of the Robinson injury. Name me one other consensus #1 draft pick who was so lucky right out of the gate to be placed into a ready-made title situation.

Popovich was in danger of being fired in Spurs first championship year - he was FAR from a great coach (which he eventually grew into). I'll remind you that many coaches (especially unknowns as Pop was then) have gotten fired because a star wanted it. This is a player's league - because there are only 5 of your players on the court - TALENT is of utmost importance.

People in the know acknowledge who is the real reason for the Spurs' rings - see Mike Budenholzer acceptance of his COY award - giving thanks to Tim Duncan (first - because without players/talent there is no ring) and Gregg Popovich (who gave him a chance and taught him a lot).

[rmt]

Kobe at least was man enough to admit it.

Duncan does admit it wasn't the best of performances, but it wasn't someone else who bailed them out in Game 7 - it was Duncan.

"It wasn't the greatest of games but there was a stretch where I felt really good and I just wanted to be assertive at that point," Duncan said.

"They just kept coming to me and kept giving me the opportunities and I got one to fall in and two to fall in and things started happening," said Duncan, who made 10-of-27 shots. "Then I was able to draw some double-teams and got some guys some open shots."

http://web.archive.org/web/200902192...SAS/recap.html

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe at least was man enough to admit it.

Admit what? Their performances weren't even comparable. Duncan was the defensive anchor of the Spurs' dynasty. His hallmark was defense and he still had a better offensive game than 2010 Kobe (a bad defender at that point) did.

Had Duncan played as poorly as Kobe did, he would certainly have admitted he did. But your mistake is false equivalence.