Tom Heinsohn: "practically same amount of kids played basketball in my era vs..."

[ProfessorMurder]

game has changed.. dribbling now allows for more palming which allows superior athletes to really dominate. When you can only have your hand on top of the ball it limits you're lateral movement and control when slashing with force. A lot of those guys back then wouldn't be able to keep up with that today because aside from the stars the middling talent (which is majority of the league) wasn't close to as athletic..

not to mention 3 pt shooting in todays era wasn't even practiced back then and its so critical to enhanced efficiency.

This has a lot to do with the total amount of people playing...

[ISHGoat]

Its pretty intuitive to think that Heinsohn would be doubly wrong. The total population has increased AND the percentage of the population playing basketball at all levels has increased.

[Marchesk]

He is underestimating the growth of black genes

Tell me if you saw any 17 year olds pulling this shit off back then

If Dr J had grown up watching MJ and Vince Carter dunk, he might have been able to do that at 17.

There's not much video available for highlight dunks before a certain time. Jumping Jim Pollard supposedly could dunk from the free throw line back in the 50s.

[Marchesk]

ven if the sport was played EXACTLY the same amount, with the same interest, the population in the US has basically doubled since then.

Sure, but other sports have grown as well, some of which didn't exist back then.

[Marchesk]

Anyway, this is in no way determines whether you will be a good basketball player. It just means you're a good dunker. There's been plenty of super athletic dunking types who didn't turn into great pros, or even make it in the league.

[warriorfan]

Well, he's wrong and he has an agenda. What do you want him to say? "Well, yeah there were only 8 teams and we had a monopoly on the majority of the talent. Today I wouldn't even make the league!" No, of course not. He is going to play mental gymnastics and try to make an argument how back in his day the league was just as good or even better than today! What a bunch of B.S. CavsFTL if you really believe this nonsense for a second then I know someone who got a few bridges for sale.

[Marchesk]

Regarding athletic ability being so much greater today, answer this.

Why didn't Gus Johnson, who was 6'6, 230 pounds in the 60s as an exceptional athlete put up Wilt or Oscar type numbers? Don't you guys claim that if you took a modern player and put them back in that era, they would put up video game numbers because of their superior athleticism?

Well why didn't Gus? He was a HOFer, but he didn't destroy the league.

[Jameerthefear]

Well, he's wrong and he has an agenda. What do you want him to say? "Well, yeah there were only 8 teams and we had a monopoly on the majority of the talent. Today I wouldn't even make the league!" No, of course not. He is going to play mental gymnastics and try to make an argument how back in his day the league was just as good or even better than today! What a bunch of B.S. CavsFTL if you really believe this nonsense for a second then I know someone who got a few bridges for sale.

Have you seen CuckFTW play basketball? There are videos. It's ****ing pathetic and you realize why he thinks the way he does

[La Frescobaldi]

He is underestimating the growth of black genes

Tell me if you saw any 17 year olds pulling this shit off back then

Sure. There were real young guys, 17, 18, 19 years old doing that kinda stuff in the parks back then.
I promise you've never seen a basketball player do anything that we didn't see way way back in '60s and '70s. Not a single thing athletically nor skills wise. On the NBA courts you never saw the highest skills, because the skills rules were really strict but dribbling and so forth? Oh yeah they could handle a ball but the rule was hand on top at all times period. To me it was most excellent of the NBA to get rid of that because it was bad basketball I mean palming and carrying rules. But my gosh shooting skills though.... much much higher nowadays with all the film and the coaches so much better in the elementary school levels, etc.

Julius Erving is the last guy to invent new moves as far as I know, but I would never rule out the idea that he himself got those moves from guys like Earl Monroe or Connie Hawkins or somebody we never even heard of because they never made the pros. There used to be small pro leagues too back then with some great players but who were jacked on cocaine or whatever it was and no NBA team would touch them. Even city leagues you could see glimpses of greatness, usually guys with astounding athleticism but stupider than a lump of granite.

But Connie Hawkins is the only player I know of that I can say, his game, his style, has never been duplicated. As far as I know, nobody can do what he did. I say that because, nobody ever has, that I have ever seen.

edit ~ now as I say that it doesn't mean the skills were that high everywhere like they are now. I'm talking about the very best guys back then... where today you see really great skills everywhere. Athletic though hasn't changed much if at all

[Marchesk]

But Connie Hawkins is the only player I know of that I can say, his game, his style, has never been duplicated. As far as I know, nobody can do what he did. I say that because, nobody ever has, that I have ever seen.

Now I'm curious. What was Connie Hawkins able to do that nobody else could?

Edit: from some of the highlights, I see there are things he could do with the ball one handed that few would be capable of doing.

[senelcoolidge]

Now I'm curious. What was Connie Hawkins able to do that nobody else could?

Connie Hawkins had really large hands and he knew how to put the ball in the hole.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp3UXNVqR9E

[LAZERUSS]

Sure. There were real young guys, 17, 18, 19 years old doing that kinda stuff in the parks back then.
I promise you've never seen a basketball player do anything that we didn't see way way back in '60s and '70s. Not a single thing athletically nor skills wise. On the NBA courts you never saw the highest skills, because the skills rules were really strict but dribbling and so forth? Oh yeah they could handle a ball but the rule was hand on top at all times period. To me it was most excellent of the NBA to get rid of that because it was bad basketball I mean palming and carrying rules. But my gosh shooting skills though.... much much higher nowadays with all the film and the coaches so much better in the elementary school levels, etc.

Julius Erving is the last guy to invent new moves as far as I know, but I would never rule out the idea that he himself got those moves from guys like Earl Monroe or Connie Hawkins or somebody we never even heard of because they never made the pros. There used to be small pro leagues too back then with some great players but who were jacked on cocaine or whatever it was and no NBA team would touch them. Even city leagues you could see glimpses of greatness, usually guys with astounding athleticism but stupider than a lump of granite.

But Connie Hawkins is the only player I know of that I can say, his game, his style, has never been duplicated. As far as I know, nobody can do what he did. I say that because, nobody ever has, that I have ever seen.

edit ~ now as I say that it doesn't mean the skills were that high everywhere like they are now. I'm talking about the very best guys back then... where today you see really great skills everywhere. Athletic though hasn't changed much if at all

Not sure about Lavine's shooting skills. He shot .449 in college, and .422 last year.

[Cocaine80s]

Anyway, this is in no way determines whether you will be a good basketball player. It just means you're a good dunker. There's been plenty of super athletic dunking types who didn't turn into great pros, or even make it in the league.

Nikka please, put ****ing Gerald Green in the 60s and he would average 30ppg on dunks alone

[Marchesk]

Nikka please, put ****ing Gerald Green in the 60s and he would average 30ppg on dunks alone

Wilt didn't even score 30 on dunks alone. What makes you think a 46.6 2P% 6-8 player would do that back then?

[Cocaine80s]

Wilt didn't even score 30 on dunks alone. What makes you think a 46.6 2P% 6-8 player would do that back then?

Thats because he is nowhere near the athlete Green is