Is Chris Webber an HOF'er?

[Kblaze8855]

Anyone who understands basketball knows that Pau was the better player by a fair margin.

Thats just flat out crazy. Even if Pau was better(he wasnt) there is too much evidence of people with long ties to the game considering Webber an elite player to say that. I have a tape of a game the Kings played vs the 76ers and during it they showed a clip of Doc Rivers listing Webber with Duncan, AI, Tmac, and Kobe as the only players in discussion for second best in the league(Shaq was the obvious #1 at the time) There is absolutely no question who the more highly regarded player would be if they shared a league in their primes. None.

You could rail against it all you like....Chris Webber was and would be considered better and if both are free agents 100% of the teams in the league call Webber before Pau.

I like Pau...but hes the backup plan 100% of the time if teams have both of them to pitch to. People who have been in and around the game 30-40 years were repping Webber hard and still are.

You can disagree...but he had people on his side far too involved in real playing and operating to say anyone who put him over Pau doesnt know the game.

Webber in his prime was seen as maybe a notch behind the top tier. Pau was never seen that way.

You might not agree....but too many people would to just say only know nothings believe it.

Hall of famers were talking him up as the MVP.

[GIF REACTION]

Thats just flat out crazy. Even if Pau was better(he wasnt) there is too much evidence of people with long ties to the game considering Webber an elite player to say that. I have a tape of a game the Kings played vs the 76ers and during it they showed a clip of Doc Rivers listing Webber with Duncan, AI, Tmac, and Kobe as the only players in discussion for second best in the league(Shaq was the obvious #1 at the time) There is absolutely no question who the more highly regarded player would be if they shared a league in their primes. None.

You could rail against it all you like....Chris Webber was would would be considered better and if both are free agents 100% of the teams in the league call Webber before Pau.

I like Pau...but hes the backup plan 100% of the time if teams have both of them to pitch to. People who have been in and around the game 30-40 years were repping Webber hard and still are.

You can disagree...but he had people on his side far too involved in real playing and operating to say anyone who put him over Pau doesnt know the game.

Webber in his prime was seen as maybe a notch behind the top tier. Pau was never seen that way.

You might not agree....but too many people would to just say only know nothings believe it.

Hall of famers were talking him up as the MVP.

I'm pretty sure Webber came 4th in the MVP in a year of prime Shaq, 2001 Kobe, TMAC, Iverson, Garnett, Vince Carter Duncan, Nowitzki, etc

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

No, one of the most overrated players of the past 20 years. Didnt have the most impact on those Kings team and was sht scared of contact which is why he constantly dipped in playoffs

[GIF REACTION]

No, one of the most overrated players of the past 20 years. Didnt have the most impact on those Kings team and was sht scared of contact which is why he constantly dipped in playoffs

That's ridiculous

You are obviously referring to the 2004 season where he returned from the knee injury

He clearly wasn't the same and was hurting the team

But it was clear how good he was and how he made the team so much better

They were very talented teams, but look at 2002-2003 playoffs. They were cruising to the conference finals then Webber did his knee and they lost in 7 to Dallas. He was a +11 during that playoffs run. In the playoffs two years before he was a +31 through 8 playoff games. He was extremely good, but he was also on a good team. He revived the Detroit Pistons almost like Rasheed did. It took a Lebron god performance to beat them in the ECF.

[masonanddixon]

Thats just flat out crazy. Even if Pau was better(he wasnt) there is too much evidence of people with long ties to the game considering Webber an elite player to say that. I have a tape of a game the Kings played vs the 76ers and during it they showed a clip of Doc Rivers listing Webber with Duncan, AI, Tmac, and Kobe as the only players in discussion for second best in the league(Shaq was the obvious #1 at the time) There is absolutely no question who the more highly regarded player would be if they shared a league in their primes. None.

You could rail against it all you like....Chris Webber was and would be considered better and if both are free agents 100% of the teams in the league call Webber before Pau.

I like Pau...but hes the backup plan 100% of the time if teams have both of them to pitch to. People who have been in and around the game 30-40 years were repping Webber hard and still are.

You can disagree...but he had people on his side far too involved in real playing and operating to say anyone who put him over Pau doesnt know the game.

Webber in his prime was seen as maybe a notch behind the top tier. Pau was never seen that way.

You might not agree....but too many people would to just say only know nothings believe it.

Hall of famers were talking him up as the MVP.

Thats not true at all. Back in 05-06 Pau was at an absolutely elite level, the 3rd best power forward after Dirk and Duncan and carried his team to the 5th seed.

Webber has always been flawed in crunch time and was always a below average player.

I would say at their peaks Webber and Gasol were roughly equal, and edge going to Gasol because of defense and reliability.

[Norcaliblunt]

Straight up choke artist.

[Kblaze8855]

Thats not true at all. Back in 05-06 Pau was at an absolutely elite level, the 3rd best power forward after Dirk and Duncan and carried his team to the 5th seed.

Webber has always been flawed in crunch time and was always a below average player.

I would say at their peaks Webber and Gasol were roughly equal, and edge going to Gasol because of defense and reliability.

You could say it all you like. GMs, coaches, players, media or fans....Webber would get taken first.

In 06 Pau wasnt even all nba third team. And he didnt have the most votes among forwards who didnt make an all nba team either.

There is a lot of "...well I think" to this argument. Which is all well and good. Thats why we are here. But there is too much evidence that perfectly reasonable and experienced basketball people thought Webber was amazing and had him above where similar people later had Pau.

Doesnt make it a fact that he was better...id say it makes it hard to say people who disagree simply dont know basketball.

Pau was never that highly regarded. At times I felt he deserved it....I was on ISH talking up a Bulls trade for Gasol instead of Kobe in 07...because Kobe would have cost more. I wanted Pau then. Hes one of my favorite players now.

Love his game. Love his high post passing.

I have clips of him stored for a project ive long had planned. Coincidentally one of them is Pau going behind the back on the break and throwing a no look as Webber calls the game and lost his mind....

I like the guy. Always have.

But you put them in one league....Webber is gonna be considered better.

[dazzer87]

IF Pau is HOF why not Webber.....

[ShaqTwizzle]

Thats just flat out crazy.

I don't think its crazy at all. I think its flat out true.
I think Webber is historically overrated and when you look at all the information that becomes more and more apparent.

Appealing to authority which in your case (in my opinion) is basically an appeal to the sentiment of casual fans doesn't mean much to me.

Why did he get overrated?

#1. Webber in the early 00's was a popular flashy player on a flashy successful team.
#2. People overrate volume stats and often ignore or underrate things like efficiency/consistency/defense or the ability to maintain stats against better playoff level defenses.
Theres a reason why Iverson won an MVP back then.

Webber in 01 was very inefficient (.516%TS) and in the playoffs dropped down too 23 on 43%TS.
But yeah... he was up there with Shaq & Duncan.

Webber was never in the same galaxy as Shaq, Duncan, KG or even very close to Kobe once he developed.
He was a good player on some deep teams.

The fact that Doc Rivers even said he was in the discussion as guys like Peak Shaq or Prime Duncan just shows how biased and poor most former players or others involved with the game are at objectively rating guys.

There is absolutely no question who the more highly regarded player would be if they shared a league in their primes.

Lot of people thought Iverson >>> Kobe in 2001 & 2002.

But you put them in one league....Webber is gonna be considered better.

And yet...

[COLOR="DarkRed"]5 year playoff Prime...[/COLOR]

Webber : 22 / 9.8 / 4.1 / 1.3-bpg on 49%TS --- (48 games)
Gasol : 19 / 10.5 / 3.3 / 2.0-bpg on 58%TS--- (75 games)

People today have a better understanding of the game.
They aren't going to ignore the massive chasm in efficiency between the two especially in the playoffs where Webber's faceup game got exposed more deeply.

They aren't going to ignore that Gasol is a somewhat better rebounder and a far better rim-protector/overall defender.

I watched Webber during his best years and I watched Pau during his best years.
There is no doubt in my mind that Pau was the more skilled, fundamentally sound and just better overall two way player.

I think you got caught up with the hype and the popular sentiment of the times.
Webber wasn't that good.
I'd say he was a firm level or two below Gasol with a guys like Bosh.
That is his level.

Also when you move beyond their best years Gasol just ends up murdering Webber in terms of longevity so career wise its fairly clear that Gasol >>>>> Webber.

[Norcaliblunt]

Dude was a cancer early in his career. And a little baby dissing the city of Sacramento for not being "hood enough" when his bitch ass forced his way out of one of the most hood cities in America with Oakland. Dude was a little girl.

[Kblaze8855]

As ive said...say it all day. People you cant justify claiming dont know basketball would disagree. It isnt an appeal to authority...I never said it proves it true. You claimed people who disagree with you dont know ball. I said...you cant act like the many people who thought and think webber was amazing and better than Pau...dont know basketball. And the many(many many) examples I could site to suggest it make that clear.

You dont play in the nba 10 years and coach another 20 and just...not know shit about basketball.

You disagree with popular sentiment. Thats all well and good. But to make Pau>Webber out to be an argument so clearly in favor of Pau as to be used to decide who does and doesnt know ball? That is simply crazy.

Pau was better than Armen Gilliam(all due respect to the hammer). If you disagree you dont know basketball.

To apply that to him vs Webber is just being ridiculous.

[iamgine]

Post injury Webber was literal sh!t at the level of current Kobe.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yes.

2002 was rigged.

[Norcaliblunt]

Pau vs Webber is like bread and butter vs hotdog with mustard. Take your pick.

[Fallen Angel]

No one can deny the fact that Webber will make the HOF even with the shit about him lying to a grand jury.

As far as him being a first ballot HOF'er, I don't think his career is accomplished enough to be in that category.

If Pau and Webber were both eligible for the Hall of Fame and you had to choose one, I'd personally choose Pau for what he's done both in the NBA and international basketball.