Scottie Pippen: Underrated/Overrated?

[Kovach]

Magic wasnt that great at creating his own shot.

His unstoppable baby hook was not created by other players for him. Also, does plowing through the entire defense for a layup count as creating your own shot? If so then yes, he actually was that great at creating his own shot.

As for the subject of the thread, I'd say he is rated right where he belongs.

[Dragonyeuw]

AND one of THE greatest perimeter defenders / playmakers ever.

Don't mind me, just correcting you.

Pippen has a youtube highlight reel called 'Ultimate Defender'( you may have seen it). It's just about as enjoyable to watch as any offensive highlight reel. Dude was a crazy defensive force....

[jstern]

I do. Ne-1 posted that GM survey done in 95 a whike back. Pippen was highly regarded in the NBA. I remember reading an interview with Tex Winter in which he discusses Krause.wanting to trade Pippen for Kemp and Hersey Hawkins. And he said Jackson, himself as well as the rest of the coaches said hed be nuts if he did that trade.

I don't deny Pippen's ability and I do think he's underrated, just that the Kobe fans keep exaggerating saying things that I've never heard about Pippen in order to diminish Jordan.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Pippen has a youtube highlight reel called 'Ultimate Defender'( you may have seen it). It's just about as enjoyable to watch as any offensive highlight reel. Dude was a crazy defensive force....

Agreed. Part 1 AND 2 are amazing. Scottie33pippen (who posts here as "hitmanyr2k"), also has a "complete player" series. I had forgotten how good Scottie's back to the basket game was. Guy was a VERY good post player.

[STATUTORY]

Incredibly underrated and his legacy will be increasingly eroded and maligned as NBA fans become more stat obsessed with less emphasis on the specificites of the game.

What Pippen brought to the game were aspects that can't be effectively quantified. Amazing on ball defender, weakside helper, versatility both on offense and defense, court vision, etc

There's not many championship team in history of NBA that couldn't have been improved by replacing one of the main pieces with a prime pippen

[97 bulls]

His unstoppable baby hook was not created by other players for him. Also, does plowing through the entire defense for a layup count as creating your own shot? If so then yes, he actually was that great at creating his own shot.

As for the subject of the thread, I'd say he is rated right where he belongs.

Pippen had an extremely effective jumphook as well. And he was much better than Magic at one on one iso type situations.

[Kovach]

And he was much better than Magic at one on one iso type situations.

Really? How?

[TheMan]

I approve of this post

Da Fuq?...





- and it's 100% true....Pippen had a 5 year stretch of top 2 - 3 player in the NBA...

from 92' - 96' he was always referred as 2nd best allaround player in the League....


- his 92' and 93' seasons were some of the best basketball ever by anyone....his perimeter defense alone was unlike anything I ever seen.

- I would say he is vastly Overrated .....since MJ is so popular, many overlook Pippen....True Fans of basketball that watched him play....understand how valuable he was.

Jordan = .417 winning % without Pippen. ( 5 sub .500 seasons) 1/3rd of his career.....that alone says it all. ( not saying MJ wasn't a great player...but Pippen provided all the help he needed to make the Bull's a championship team)

[97 bulls]

Really? How?

Honestly, I cant even say that. Magics role on the team wasnt to take people off the dribble. In the event the oppositition got back and the defense was set, the ball went to Jabaar. Then it went to Worthy as Jabaar aged. Ive always maintained theyre about equal when it comes to the ability to score.

[97 bulls]

I don't deny Pippen's ability and I do think he's underrated, just that the Kobe fans keep exaggerating saying things that I've never heard about Pippen in order to diminish Jordan.

Thats because people tend to hold players to standard they dont hold others to.

Case and point

think a little bit of both. The dude gets overlooked because he played with Jordan but at the same time, he was such a great player. Now, do I think he is good enough to STILL, today, be one of the top 50 players of all time? No. He is not a guy like Jordan, Shaq, LeBron, etc who could lead a team to the finals without another star. But he does get overlooked a lot and I feel his defense gets overlooked as well.

This is Jbryan1984s post in this thread. He says Jordan and Shaq won without another star. What about Kobe? Rodman? Pippen? And James may have made it to the finals without a top caliber player, but he did so by being in a terrible conference and got swept while playing atrocious.

[Kblaze8855]

Magic wasnt a scorer by nature but he could have scored at a rate Pippen never did im sure of that. In 87 when Kareem went down he put up:

34/15
38/16
46/10/9
30/15
28/9
4 points 18 assist(40 point win only played 29 minutes)
32/14 the game Kareem came back for a few moments

Dropped down for a 26 point triple double the next game with Kareem fully back then went back to usual. Scored more than usual even after that but....he didnt just pour it on as he could have.

Magic could do whatever he felt like.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Replace Lebron with Pippen on the 07 Cavs and they don't get past the ECF. No chance at all. Pippen was beast, but he aint carrying that team's offense for a whole 4th quarter and two overtimes.

[Ne 1]

Magic wasnt a scorer by nature but he could have scored at a rate Pippen never did im sure of that. In 87 when Kareem went down he put up:

34/15
38/16
46/10/9
30/15
28/9
4 points 18 assist(40 point win only played 29 minutes)
32/14 the game Kareem came back for a few moments

Dropped down for a 26 point triple double the next game with Kareem fully back then went back to usual. Scored more than usual even after that but....he didnt just pour it on as he could have.

Magic could do whatever he felt like.

Peak Pippen was actually very close to mid 80s Magic statistically speaking...

'94 Pippen:

22/9/6/3 on 49%
All-defensive first team
23.2 PER (lets use PER since MJ fans love this statistic)
Bulls were 51-21 in games he played, and 4-6 without him

'85 Magic:

18/6/13/2 on 56%
23.2 PER
Lakers were 57-20 in games he played, and 5-0 without him

Magic is obviously the better offensive player (and would go on to become an even better player after '87), but Pippen has a huge huge edge defensively. But had Pippen's prime come in the mid 80s, against a worse league defensively and while playing on a faster pace (imagine even more transition scoring opportunities for Scottie), is a 24/10/7 season on 50+% really out of the question here? Maybe even something like 25/10/8 if he played in the mid 80s run and gun Western Conference (defensively those were some of the worst conferences in NBA history, almost every team gave up 110+ ppg). Pippen can lock down Magic in a one on one matchup as we've already seen in '91, but can you say the same is true the other way around? I think '87-'89 Magic > any version of Pippen, but mid 80s Magic vs. Pippen is a really good comparison imo. Both players can dominate a game while taking less than 10 shots too.

Pippen on an 80's run and gun team could've approached those numbers. He averaged 21/8/7 on 51% shooting on the '92 Bulls and that team's pace factor was 94.4, his season 22/9/6/49 FG% season in '94 came on a team with a pace factor of 91.9.

Now if we use '85 for comparison, the Nuggets played at the fastest pace(107.6) and the Showtime Lakers were only the 9th fastest team(103.2).

So a 21-22 ppg, 8-9 rpg, 6-7 apg going from a structured slower paced offensive to a fastbreak team with 10-15 extra possessions to work with.

[fpliii]

I don't know if he's either per se.

He has to be considered an all-time great considering he and Jordan split lead playmaking/defensive anchoring duties (Pip more so than MJ though; Jordan was more impactful as an overall individual talent, at least offensively), when these are duties almost exclusively reserved for points and bigs. How many guys arguably assumed both of those roles on championship-level teams? On the other hand, he's been overrated quite a bit due to agendas on this board (I'll leave it at that).

He's up there in the rankings and probably the best defender in league history that wasn't a big (in addition to his duties as a point forward for a good deal of his time in Chicago), but beyond that I'm not going to attempt to place him.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Who's higher on the all-time list, Pippen or Lebron?
[COLOR="white"]lol[/COLOR]