ISH All time top 25 Forwards voting. #14. Scottie Pippen vs Elgin Baylor.

[Big164]

No one here has been able to defend Elgins putrid fg% , dead last on his own team in 1969. No one can defend his 0 championships, he had the two Greatest scorers of the era and still went ringless.



Wilt and west could've had a shaq/Kobe type run but Elgin ruined the chemistry of that team. He was the nick van excel/ laker Malone type guy stealing shots from superior players.

[97 bulls]

Baylor had West and Russell had Cousy, Hondo, Sharman, Jones, Jones number 2, Howell, ect.

True. I'm not saying the lakers should've beat the celtics. But I don't see the sense in awarding baylor for an accomplishment he couldn't do for whatever reason, then penalize pippen for the same thing. Even though pippen didn't have the same opportunities. And what's more, won 6 championships.

That's the unfortunate part about ranking players. No one player has taken the same path.[PHP][/PHP]

[oolalaa]

I'm not being biased. You set the perameters of this conversation and I'm trying to follow it. Pippen couldn't lead a team to a championship according to you which is a point for baylor. But baylor didn't lead a team to a championship either. So you say the lakers had to go against the dynasty celtics. My response is neither team was good enough to be honest so why is it a mark against pippen? As if his team was good enough and just lost to an underdog in the first round in a sweep.

Yes, neither team was good enough, but this isn't the debate. The debate is - who is the better player?

Lets just agree to disagree. It was fun debating with you

[PTB Fan]

So, who advances in the next round?

[Kblaze8855]

So, who advances in the next round?

Recounting now...

I believe its 13 for baylor and...

[Kblaze8855]

Recounting now...

I believe its 13 for baylor and...

...12 for Pippen.

But im gonna count a third time and post who it seems votes for who. Its too close and too high up to get it wrong. I had pippen winning my first count. Some people argue for one but dont seem to actually vote. Makes it rough.

No votes after this post will count until im 100% on the previous ones. If it ends up tied....votes after this will decide the winner.

[L.Kizzle]

...12 for Pippen.

But im gonna count a third time and post who it seems votes for who. Its too close and too high up to get it wrong. I had pippen winning my first count. Some people argue for one but dont seem to actually vote. Makes it rough.

No votes after this post will count until im 100% on the previous ones. If it ends up tied....votes after this will decide the winner.

Elgin Baylor is the winner, its no other way. Its a travisty is Pippen wins. Might as well put James Worthy and McHale above Baylor too.

[Kblaze8855]

Elgin Baylor is the winner, its no other way. Its a travisty is Pippen wins. Might as well put James Worthy and McHale above Baylor too.

Its not a travesty if anyone from here on beats anyone else outside Bird and Duncan faling out of the top 2-3.

Elgin Baylor didnt actually accomplish very much compared to a lot of these guys up here. He got close to doing a lot. He was almost an MVP. He wasnt. Almost a champ. He wasnt. Almost led in scoring. He didnt.

The ball bounces another way a few times hes in the top 5. It didnt.

And his team made the finals without him in his prime(I believe he played 1 playoff game)....and late in his career he retired the night his team started a 33 game win streak and won it all.

He did nothing aside from score a lot by shooting 28-33 times a game and rebound a lot due to an absurd number being there to grab to justify ranking in the top 10 or so on this list.

Hes got people who actually led teams to titles in his way. MVPs. He could be argued top 15 all time yes. Or top 12 maybe. But that doesnt mean he cant be argued outside the top 20.

All these guys are elites. Its no insult to be behind Pippen or next to Elvin Hayes or anything.

As I said this is Scottie Pippen. Not some nobody.


And others should feel free to count as well if they think I get it wrong.

[L.Kizzle]

Its not a travesty if anyone from here on beats anyone else outside Bird and Duncan faling out of the top 2-3.

Elgin Baylor didnt actually accomplish very much compared to a lot of these guys up here. He got close to doing a lot. He was almost an MVP. He wasnt. Almost a champ. He wasnt. Almost led in scoring. He didnt.

The ball bounces another way a few times hes in the top 5. It didnt.

And his team made the finals without him in his prime(I believe he played 1 playoff game)....and late in his career he retired the night his team started a 33 game win streak and won it all.

He did nothing aside from score a lot by shooting 28-33 times a game and rebound a lot due to an absurd number being there to grab to justify ranking in the top 10 or so on this list.

Hes got people who actually led teams to titles in his way. MVPs. He could be argued top 15 all time yes. Or top 12 maybe. But that doesnt mean he cant be argued outside the top 20.

All these guys are elites. Its no insult to be behind Pippen or next to Elvin Hayes or anything.

As I said this is Scottie Pippen. Not some nobody.


And others should feel free to count as well if they think I get it wrong.

He can be argued top 15 all time, but this is top 15 forwards. Don't you see something wrong with this picture? And yes he never won it all, but who in his era did, Bill Russells Celtics. He never won a scoring title but who in his era did Wilt. I'm pretty sure Elgin was #2 most of the 7 seasons Wilt won. He didn't win MVPs but who in his era was, Russell and Wilt. Basically the same 2 player plus Oscar and West here and there were beating _lgin. Now Pippen, a host of players were above Scottie yr in and yr out. Only a few season maybe 3 did he reach Elgins satus of a top 5 player.

[Kblaze8855]

He can be argued top 15 all time, but this is top 15 forwards. Don't you see something wrong with this picture?

Nope. At least 10 forwards id say can easily be ranked over him without much fuss.

And yes he never won it all, but who in his era did, Bill Russells Celtics.

Im not calling a team unbeatable when you lose by a single jumper. More than once.

And again...West took them to the finals without Baylor and they won after he retired. So how am I gonna credit him with even going all those years?

He never won a scoring title but who in his era did Wilt. I'm pretty sure Elgin was #2 most of the 7 seasons Wilt won.

Wilt stopped shooting a lot by Philly. Besides...not being the best isnt an excuse for...not being the best.

He didn't win MVPs but who in his era was, Russell and Wilt. Basically the same 2 player plus Oscar and West here and there were beating _lgin.

Oh so he lost out to better players?

Thats how it works. Same reason Pippen has no MVPs.

Now Pippen, a host of players were above Scottie yr in and yr out. Only a few season maybe 3 did he reach Elgins satus of a top 5 player

Could replace Elgin there with Paul Arizin or Dolph Schayes. I wouldnt put them over Pippen. And they actually won.

[Smoke117]

Scottie played during the big mans era but from 92 to 97 I think you could call him the 2nd greatest perimeter player in the league if not the best (I think he was the best in 94 and 95 when Jordan retired) and top 5 in 91 and 98, so that is no knock on Scottie that he played in the era he played in.

[L.Kizzle]

Nope. At least 10 forwards id say can easily be ranked over him without much fuss.





Im not calling a team unbeatable when you lose by a single jumper. More than once.

And again...West took them to the finals without Baylor and they won after he retired. So how am I gonna credit him with even going all those years?




Wilt stopped shooting a lot by Philly. Besides...not being the best isnt an excuse for...not being the best.



Oh so he lost out to better players?

Thats how it works. Same reason Pippen has no MVPs.



Could replace Elgin there with Paul Arizin or Dolph Schayes. I wouldnt put them over Pippen. And they actually won.

I understand he lost to better players bu those players were Russell, Wilt, O and West. All top ten or boderline ten. I could name over 12 maybe 15 player better than Pippen in his time period. Can't do that wth Elgin. Hell you can add in Petttit and Hondo and still 6.

[Big164]

Elgin bAylor Sucks, plain and simple. If you couldnt win a ship with the two greatest scorers ever on your team, and these guys start dominating the moment you retire, then YOU were the problem.

And don't give me the celtics/Russell excuse. Russell was defeated twice by wilts sixers and Petits Hawks. Russell was very beatable, Baylor is simply not up to par.

Having both Wilt and West in 1969, is like pippen having shaq and Jordan in 1998.

Pippen was a winner who understood his role as robin. Baylor thought he was better than Jerry West, and ruined the Lakers for an entire decade.

[Kblaze8855]

After a third recount I believe Baylor wins.

[FF1]

On with the next one...