Is it a coincidence? (Pau, Odom, Bynum)

[Nashty]

Watching the games >>>>>> reading about them years later

Explain me please why are the Lakers played better without Kobe?

I think it's because he is a chucker, and Lakers dominant bigs can't get their shots when he's playing, and without him the offense goes through them, and the team plays much better.

Kobe is a great individual player, but he is not a team player, and he has no impact on his teams record. And don't give me that 5 rings s***, he won those just because of dominant bigs. Kobe was just holding Lakers back, they would won more rings if they didn't had Chuckbe on their team.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Explain me please why are the Lakers played better without Kobe?

I think it's because he is a chucker, and Lakers dominant bigs can't get their shots when he's playing, and without him the offense goes through them, and the team plays much better.

Kobe is a great individual player, but he is not a team player, and he has no impact on his teams record. And don't give me that 5 rings s***, he won those just because of dominant bigs. Kobe was just holding Lakers back, they would won more rings if they didn't had Chuckbe on their team.

why should i?

Anybody who thinks a team w/o their best player is better for it doesn't deserve a response. Are you using those couple of games in the REGULAR season when Kobe was out to justify your stance?

[DMAVS41]

look, gasol was not a bad player back in the day, he clearly lacked an under-pressure mentality though, you may not like it but 0-16 is not something you can just overlook. Anyway, this thread is to put kobes cast in those chips in perspective for some delusional guys, and I dont think you are one of them

Ok. So you yield.

All Gasol's early years proved is that he wasn't a superstar and was most likely a great 2nd option. Which was confirmed by his time with the Lakers. Same thing with Odom...not good enough to be the 2nd guy...but a great 3rd guy.

The Lakers were not historically stacked...but they were stacked in relation to the rest of the league at that time. Kobe had a top supporting cast each year they won it. They never played a team with better players. You could maybe argue the 10 Celtics before Perk got hurt...maybe.

Take a minute and compare those Lakers teams to the 11 Mavs or something. Those Lakers teams were just prototypical championship teams from the coach on down.

You guys trash Gasol and Odom a lot on here, but those guys take a giant steaming turd on the likes of Terry and Chandler...etc.

So I'd just enjoy the fact that you are fans of a team that routinely has great rosters year in year out.

[Solefade]

Please post Andrew Bynums playoff stats for those 2 championship runs

His numbers aren't great, they are like 8/6 or something like that but around ~25 minutes/pg but you also have to consider that he averaged 5-6 shots a game where Kobe averaged 23 FGA and Gasol averaged around 12-13 a game in both those 09/10 years.

[Nashty]

why should i?

Anybody who thinks a team w/o their best player is better for it doesn't deserve a response. Are you using those couple of games in the REGULAR season when Kobe was out to justify your stance?

I'm not talking about this season, I'm talking about all of his seasons. He was never a factor, and that's not my opinion, that's a fact, just look at the Lakers win-loss record with or without him through the years. He was literally carried to 5 rings. Chuckbe is the most overrated player in the history of sports.

[TheMarkMadsen]

so that is the barometer of success. how many playoff games you've won?

It is a non argument. Gasol could have joined the Spurs instead of the Lakers and won a ton. Odom...the same thing.

It was about finally being on a really good team.

Gasol and Odom had already shown what kind of players they were. The notion that Kobe "made them" is absurd....

You may not like it, but you don't just put up 21/10/3 by chance. You also don't just happen to lead average at best memphis squads to the playoffs 3 times either.

I'm not on the side of "Kobe made Gasol" because he didn't, however i think you're undervaluing those Grizzly teams.

Each of those grizzlies teams that made the playoffs were extremely deep teams. Every one of those teams had 6 guys other than Gasol averaging double digit points for the season, which is pretty damn good.

[MaxFly]

And the point being? Nobody ever said Gasol was a championship first option. Nobody ever said Odom was anything other than a really good 3rd option on a title winning team.

Um... while you may not have said these things, they have been said. People have said that Gasol was the first option for those Lakers and was robbed of 2 Finals MVPs. People have said that Odom and Gasol carried Bryant.

[Solefade]

Um... while you may not have said these things, they have been said. People have said that Gasol was the first option for those Lakers and was robbed of 2 Finals MVPs. People have said that Odom and Gasol carried Bryant.

No one said Gasol was ever a first option, more like he just performed better than Kobe in the finals which there's some truth to.

[Straight_Ballin]

Both Odom and Gasol were already awesome players without Kobe. Bynum hasn't played a game yet without Kobe so we just don't know.

21/10/3
17/10/4

What are the above numbers you ask? You guessed it...the averages of Gasol and Odom the year before they both joined the Lakers.

But yea...they are nothing without Kobe.

These numbers alone are all that's needed to disprove the OP's logic. Maybe he should have checked the stats of these players before making such a silly thread.

[DMAVS41]

Um... while you may not have said these things, they have been said. People have said that Gasol was the first option for those Lakers and was robbed of 2 Finals MVPs. People have said that Odom and Gasol carried Bryant.

I've heard people claim Gasol was better than Kobe in the 10 finals...never that he was their first option or best player overall.

And, I mus stay, it is not crazy to say that Gasol was the best player in the 10 finals. It's a toss up to me. I guess it depends how much you value the last game.

All I know is that Gasol averaged 20/11/4 in the playoffs in 10 and came up huge in the biggest game of the playoffs. And stepped up time and time again with rim protection with Bynum playing limited minutes.

Not sure why Lakers fans have to try and credit Kobe with that.

I can't even imagine what Lakers fans would do having to pull for teams that weren't stacked for more than a couple years. Hell, you guys made Howard out to be a complete scrub this year....and many Kobe fans have tried to claim that Tyson Chandler was the reason the Mavs beat them in 11. Yet...Howard this year, even at his worst, is a much better player than Chandler.

So...just appreciate what you have Lakers fans.

[SpaceJammeR]

all those guys are great players. lmao

[Bandito]

Pau was considered the best big man in the game the year they won their chip in 2009 and 2010. Lamar was 6th man of the year before he got traded and Bynum was considered the 2nd best big man in the league before he got shipped off to Philly.

During their times they were great players but they've fallen off since, it has no correlation to Kobe other than the fact that they played together. It's disrespectful as hell to discredit these guys that were MAJOR pieces in getting the chip, not saying they completely carried Kobe though. OKC had to pick up Perkins and Ibaka to compete against Lamar/Gasol/Bynum so that has to account for something.

How many times do I have to tell you, Bynum didn't do crap in the championship years. He was known to be an injury risk, he still is. How moronic are you? Or did you started watching the NBA after 2012?

[Solefade]

How many times do I have to tell you, Bynum didn't do crap in the championship years. He was known to be an injury risk, he still is. How moronic are you? Or did you started watching the NBA after 2012?

How dumb and unobjective are you? The presence of Pau, Bynum, Lamar in the frontcourt dictated a lot of how teams played against them. Bynum had limited minutes (~25/pg) in the playoffs and also only average 5 or 6 shots a game. No shit your numbers are going to be dwarfed when you take that many shots a game and yet he still shot 53%+. He was healthy in time for the playoffs in 09/10 thats what mattered.

And even if you think he's "worthless" he was the 4th option on that team anyway. He's better than his stats says he is just like how you do the same with Bosh and the Heat.

And I'm sorry, I don't think I've ever spoken to you before. I tend to ignore/refuse to respond those who throw worthless points at me.

[Bandito]

Apparently you Laker fans didn't watch the games otherwise you wouldn't be discrediting Kobe's teammates.

That article is very informative, has good contextual information and facts.

No it doesn't it says Lakers without Kobe won more.

00-03 the Lakers won more with Shaq than without him.

Of course they did, take Kobe and you still have Shaq to pass the ball too. Take Shaq out and you have to depend on Kobe to shoot from the outside, with no defense on the block, due to Shaq leaving. I don't even remember if Shaq had a back up, or if they just played a lot of PF's or something.

05-07 It says that Lamar Odom was more impactful with Odom than with Kobe again based on the W/L.

08-12 It says, again based on the W/L that Kobe didn't have any impact at all. Again take Kobe out and you still had the two towers and maybe Bynum if he wasn't injured. Take Gasol or Odom out (Bynum always was) and you have a hole in the middle, reminiscent of Shaq's days.

That article is bogus and retarded.

[Bandito]

Well shit, Bosh's impact doesn't show up in the numbers and at time he's inconsistent too, but he deserves all the credit for those little things he does for the team because someone has to. Bynum averaged around 15/8 in both of those championship seasons even with his limited minutes. You guys gotta be a little more objective about this, just saying.

If you want to be objective how many minutes did he average in the playoffs, 08, 09 and 10 and put that in perspective? Who cares about the regular season, I want to know the playoffs stats or the finals for that matter.