Michael Jordan vs. Wilt Chamberlain

[branslowski]

Yes besides the fact that I have the proper information and do not self pose as a brutally abused psychological victim of mental & verbal hate to my ideal professional basketball player.

The true fact is Chamberlain has had the most dominant peak in the history of professional basketball. Combined with the killer instinct of Russell and he would be as highly regarded as Jordan is today. He'd have at least half of the rings Russell stole from him. Tis a shame, for Russell was a very clever man psychologically. And Chamberlain, was affected by all kinds of nonsense from the press and from a friendship with Russell. Regrettably, he allowed this to dictate his play to a huge extent.

Chamberlain's two weaknesses were as follows:

1. Foul shooting
2. He was too nice on the court & too sensitve to critics

Hear me out here Abe...Im not denying the fact that Wilt is one of the greatest to ever do it...But once you need excuses for a guy to try and make it even out with the clear factual basis that Jordan is the greater player, you already lose. When someone show's you a fact that Jordan has 6 Finals MVP's and Championships and you respond with something like.."Wilt would have 6 but, but, if, if"....It is an auto loss.

This is the same thing you and others jumped on Kobe stans about...If someone say's Kobe struggled in 04' due to his court issue's and thats why he didn't win...Responce from Kobe haters or other ppl..."Haha, excuse, apologist"....If some Kobe stan say's Kobe lost in 08' because Gasol and Odom was b!tched inside the paint, so it's not on Kobe or something...Responce..."Haha, excuse maker, apologist".

My view on Kobe's shortcomings?...04'- He f*ckin lost us the Finals by not passing the ball to Shaq while acting like a selfish little b!tch...08- He f*cking Choked in the key games we needed him to show his greatness, he played like garbage in every game but 1...He and his team lost, Period.

You just have to accept the FACT that Jordan>>>>Wilt...And move on...How can you not see that once you have to start making excuses to defend your reasoning for Wilt not winning...and then creating an opinionated hypothecal of what you think Wilt would have accomplished, screams out Wilt Stan, apologist.

This is the last time Im going to do this to you...Because I don't want to change your opinion on who you think is the GOAT...To each its own, and I wont knock that....Me>>>You...Admit it. I do this to alot of folks...

[Psileas]

I can agree with this list and dont really have any problem with the order with a few exceptions.

Jordan never faced an equal rival his best opponent Malone,Barkley ect.. are a step below the Birds and Isiah Piston Magic had to face and the Great Celtics Wilt had to face not to mention the teams Jabbar faced.I give it a pass but just wonder how Jordan would have faired agaisnt Great teams in there prime.

Everything has to be taken into account when ranking the GOAT's, so yes, certain things that we'll never know can be debated. After all, I'm among these who believe that there's no clear-cut GOAT and that, considering whole NBA careers and impact to the game, Wilt has as good a case as anyone, while Kareem may have the greatest basketball career in general (all levels considered). One thing is for sure: Whoever you may think is the GOAT, he is still not perfect and unrivaled. I know you get this, but I also know a lot don't.

[Niquesports]

Hear me out here Abe...Im not denying the fact that Wilt is one of the greatest to ever do it...But once you need excuses for a guy to try and make it even out with the clear factual basis that Jordan is the greater player, you already lose. When someone show's you a fact that Jordan has 6 Finals MVP's and Championships and you respond with something like.."Wilt would have 6 but, but, if, if"....It is an auto loss.

This is the same thing you and others jumped on Kobe stans about...If someone say's Kobe struggled in 04' due to his court issue's and thats why he didn't win...Responce from Kobe haters or other ppl..."Haha, excuse, apologist"....If some Kobe stan say's Kobe lost in 08' because Gasol and Odom was b!tched inside the paint, so it's not on Kobe or something...Responce..."Haha, excuse maker, apologist".

My view on Kobe's shortcomings?...04'- He f*ckin lost us the Finals by not passing the ball to Shaq while acting like a selfish little b!tch...08- He f*cking Choked in the key games we needed him to show his greatness, he played like garbage in every game but 1...He and his team lost, Period.

You just have to accept the FACT that Jordan>>>>Wilt...And move on...How can you not see that once you have to start making excuses to defend your reasoning for Wilt not winning...and then creating an opinionated hypothecal of what you think Wilt would have accomplished, screams out Wilt Stan, apologist.

This is the last time Im going to do this to you...Because I don't want to change your opinion on who you think is the GOAT...To each its own, and I wont knock that....Me>>>You...Admit it. I do this to alot of folks...

Well with that being Said does that make Russell the Goat

[Niquesports]

Everything has to be taken into account when ranking the GOAT's, so yes, certain things that we'll never know can be debated. After all, I'm among these who believe that there's no clear-cut GOAT and that, considering whole NBA careers and impact to the game, Wilt has as good a case as anyone, while Kareem may have the greatest basketball career in general (all levels considered). One thing is for sure: Whoever you may think is the GOAT, he is still not perfect and unrivaled. I know you get this, but I also know a lot don't.

Not trying to sound like an mad old man but what many of these young guys just dont get is that respect is earned not given. Every NBA player can run jump and shoot. The guys that are special are the ones that there peers respect. As great as Barkley was he doesnt get the respect that others get because many believe he never gave 100% to reach his max same with Shaq Kareem even had that knock for a while many felt he was just to laid back and emotionless. Kobe I think just got it this year that there is no I in team and for him to win he needed Gasol Odom Fisher ect.... Jordan learned this when helped to mature Pippen. My point is simple mmany have out scored,outrebounded and looked more flashy but there has never been an NBA player with the leadership that Bill Russell had

[G.O.A.T]

Nice discussion here, and honestly Abe really good stuff out of you. You're a whiz and I agree with a lot of what you say about the Stilt, especially that his lack of a killer instinct impeded his chances on winning numerous titles and begin remembered as the greatest player ever. More on that briefly, but first some perspective on just how significant Chamberlains statistical exploits were.

Wilt's dominance is quite simply unparalleled in professional sport. To put it into context, Wilt's 50ppg scoring average during the 60-61 season is the statistical equivalent to.

MLB: Bonds 72 home run record being shatted by someone who hits 96.

or

NFL: Eric Dickerson's record 2100 rushing yard season eclipsed by a 2800 yard performance.

or

NHL: Gretzky's 215 points in 1986 beign annihilated by a young stud who puts up 287 points in a single season.

This sort of dominance is almost unbelievable. And Wilt was this dominant, or very close, for all of his physical prime. He had no contemporary close to his size and skill level. He was graceful, powerful, dynamic, unstoppable. He was as literally as possible a Giant amongst Men.

So Basketball was never a huge challenge for Wilt and perhaps like the oldest cousin who takes it easy on his younger kin in a pick-up game Wilt never felt compelled to give it his all every play. Not that he made a conscious effort to go easy on folks, but the psychological edge that Russell always had was never present in the dipper.

And as we've learned over the history of sports, if you do not have the killer instinct, it can't be taught.

The Bulls of the 1990's were rarely if ever the best team on paper. But they were close and they had Michael Jordan who unlike anyone else since Russell (save maybe Tiger Woods) had the indomitable will that just refused to accept anything less then victory. The won 72 games with MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and eight other guys who were fringe NBA players most of the time. Only Kukoc and arguably Pippen were in their physical primes during that run also.

Wilt and Jordan are the too most aesthetically dominant players in the most aesthetic sport there is. Their greatness has served as a role model for players of the eras that followed their dominance. We've constantly searched for and prematurely anointed the next Chamberlain or the next Jordan. And though others greats have came and went and records set have fallen, these two endure with a legacy of spectacular individual brilliance that inspires anyone and everyone who plays the game.

[Niquesports]

Nice discussion here, and honestly Abe really good stuff out of you. You're a whiz and I agree with a lot of what you say about the Stilt, especially that his lack of a killer instinct impeded his chances on winning numerous titles and begin remembered as the greatest player ever. More on that briefly, but first some perspective on just how significant Chamberlains statistical exploits were.

Wilt's dominance is quite simply unparalleled in professional sport. To put it into context, Wilt's 50ppg scoring average during the 60-61 season is the statistical equivalent to.

MLB: Bonds 72 home run record being shatted by someone who hits 96.

or

NFL: Eric Dickerson's record 2100 rushing yard season eclipsed by a 2800 yard performance.

or

NHL: Gretzky's 215 points in 1986 beign annihilated by a young stud who puts up 287 points in a single season.

This sort of dominance is almost unbelievable. And Wilt was this dominant, or very close, for all of his physical prime. He had no contemporary close to his size and skill level. He was graceful, powerful, dynamic, unstoppable. He was as literally as possible a Giant amongst Men.

So Basketball was never a huge challenge for Wilt and perhaps like the oldest cousin who takes it easy on his younger kin in a pick-up game Wilt never felt compelled to give it his all every play. Not that he made a conscious effort to go easy on folks, but the psychological edge that Russell always had was never present in the dipper.

And as we've learned over the history of sports, if you do not have the killer instinct, it can't be taught.

The Bulls of the 1990's were rarely if ever the best team on paper. But they were close and they had Michael Jordan who unlike anyone else since Russell (save maybe Tiger Woods) had the indomitable will that just refused to accept anything less then victory. The won 72 games with MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and eight other guys who were fringe NBA players most of the time. Only Kukoc and arguably Pippen were in their physical primes during that run also.

Wilt and Jordan are the too most aesthetically dominant players in the most aesthetic sport there is. Their greatness has served as a role model for players of the eras that followed their dominance. We've constantly searched for and prematurely anointed the next Chamberlain or the next Jordan. And though others greats have came and went and records set have fallen, these two endure with a legacy of spectacular individual brilliance that inspires anyone and everyone who plays the game.

Im bout to cry someone making sence on ISh I thought Id never see it.

[Da_Realist]

Nice discussion here, and honestly Abe really good stuff out of you. You're a whiz and I agree with a lot of what you say about the Stilt, especially that his lack of a killer instinct impeded his chances on winning numerous titles and begin remembered as the greatest player ever. More on that briefly, but first some perspective on just how significant Chamberlains statistical exploits were.

Wilt's dominance is quite simply unparalleled in professional sport. To put it into context, Wilt's 50ppg scoring average during the 60-61 season is the statistical equivalent to.

MLB: Bonds 72 home run record being shatted by someone who hits 96.

or

NFL: Eric Dickerson's record 2100 rushing yard season eclipsed by a 2800 yard performance.

or

NHL: Gretzky's 215 points in 1986 beign annihilated by a young stud who puts up 287 points in a single season.

This sort of dominance is almost unbelievable. And Wilt was this dominant, or very close, for all of his physical prime. He had no contemporary close to his size and skill level. He was graceful, powerful, dynamic, unstoppable. He was as literally as possible a Giant amongst Men.

So Basketball was never a huge challenge for Wilt and perhaps like the oldest cousin who takes it easy on his younger kin in a pick-up game Wilt never felt compelled to give it his all every play. Not that he made a conscious effort to go easy on folks, but the psychological edge that Russell always had was never present in the dipper.

And as we've learned over the history of sports, if you do not have the killer instinct, it can't be taught.

The Bulls of the 1990's were rarely if ever the best team on paper. But they were close and they had Michael Jordan who unlike anyone else since Russell (save maybe Tiger Woods) had the indomitable will that just refused to accept anything less then victory. The won 72 games with MJ, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and eight other guys who were fringe NBA players most of the time. Only Kukoc and arguably Pippen were in their physical primes during that run also.

Wilt and Jordan are the too most aesthetically dominant players in the most aesthetic sport there is. Their greatness has served as a role model for players of the eras that followed their dominance. We've constantly searched for and prematurely anointed the next Chamberlain or the next Jordan. And though others greats have came and went and records set have fallen, these two endure with a legacy of spectacular individual brilliance that inspires anyone and everyone who plays the game.

This is a great read. Good job.

[Duncan21formvp]

Wilt averaged 11.7 ppg in the finals. Jordan never averaged less than 26.6 ppg in any playoff series and no player ever averaged more than MJ in any playoff series.

[IInvented]

Michael Jordan = Greatest Playoff Performer Ever


/thread

[CB4GOATPF]

As a playoff performer, Jordan ranks over Wilt, but the difference isn't as great as perceived by some. For all his productivity decrease in the playoffs, Wilt still stands as one of the greatest playoff performers ever. It's just the fact that his regular season numbers are so outworldly that makes his playoff stats look more pedestrian. But on the end of the day, we have a guy who still averaged 23/25/4 on 52% FG, countless blocked shots and top-notch defense, despite facing defensive monsters Russell and/or Thurmond in 10 of his 13 post-seasons. And mind that his scoring numbers and his PER, which greatly correlates with scoring, are negatively affected by the fact that he played twice as many games during his "low-scoring" period (hell, he still led the playoffs in PER 6 times). As for his playoff chokes and underperformances, honestly they don't outnumber the ones of other great playoff performers like Bird or Shaq. However, his own ones, partially due to the fact that the "good guy" Russell was winning all the rings in the 60's were much more hyped.

When it comes to the 10 greatest NBA playoff performers, Wilt easily makes the list. Overall, it should look approximately like this:

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Shaq
Wilt
West
Russell
Bird
Duncan
Pettit (this guy is underrated, period)/Kobe/Baylor

Great Play-Off Performers?

No Hakeem?
No Barkley? ...

[CB4GOATPF]

I can agree with this list and dont really have any problem with the order with a few exceptions.

Jordan never faced an equal rival his best opponent Malone,Barkley ect.. are a step below the Birds and Isiah Piston Magic had to face and the Great Celtics Wilt had to face not to mention the teams Jabbar faced.I give it a pass but just wonder how Jordan would have faired agaisnt Great teams in there prime.

Malone was a notch below Bird slightly its not like its a large margin

Barkley is no way below Bird interms of Impact, actually the Superior Plaeyer in those terms...he did not play with McHale, Parish, Maxweel, DJ, Walton etc...which totally makes your job alot easier...

[IInvented]

are y'all seriously writting paragraphs about this shit

[Fatal9]

What separates Wilt/Jordan as playoff performers seems to be that one of them could have an awful series individually and still win because of the team around them (sweeping top teams with Jordan shooting 30-something per cent...what other stars had this luxury, especially at a time when the NBA weakened considerably?).

Tough call but there are several players I'd take before both of them.

[OldSchoolBBall]

What separates Wilt/Jordan as playoff performers seems to be that one of them could have an awful series individually and still win because of the team around them (sweeping top teams with Jordan shooting 30-something per cent...what other stars had this luxury, especially at a time when the NBA weakened considerably?).

Tough call but there are several players I'd take before both of them.

LMAO @ both of your statements.

PS - Jordan never shot below 40% in any playoff series, and only shot 42% or less in a few series in his career (literally 3 iirc). Not sure where 30-something percent comes from.

[Lebron23]

Wilt averaged 11.7 ppg in the finals. Jordan never averaged less than 26.6 ppg in any playoff series and no player ever averaged more than MJ in any playoff series.

Michael Jordan = God of basketball.

No NBA player today will ever surpass his playoffs scoring record.