how bad was basketball back in the 60s??

[Naero]

Jerry west couldn't make today's elite high school teams.

Funny how people are hasty to downplay his potential in today's game without even trying to contextualize how well he would've modernized himself in today's culture.

He played during an era where basketball wasn't even popularized during his childhood, and it therefore took a while for it to be embraced as popularly as Baseball (at the time). He was playing while the entire basketball culture was raw and under-evolved, and the same players of today would likely be subjected to the same shortcomings of that era that are denigrated by today's fans.

If he grew up as contemporaries to modern-era players, he'd have acclimated himself to more advanced training methods, techniques, methodology and nutrients; as such, he'd be more skilled, in better athletically shape, and he would manage to make use of his high-IQ headwork in today's culture too.

How would he have played today? Only speculation can paint the picture on that; but as it pertains to past players, you can only logically appraise them on how well they managed to transcend their own era, and historians respect it regardless of how they'd supposedly fare today.

Based on my eye-test of his basketball IQ and range, I'd imagine a modernized Jerry West would be akin to Steve Nash of today

[dhsilv]

[QUOTE=Naero]He had long-range prowess from what highlights I've seen from him

[iamgine]

Jerry West shot 47.4% in a fast paced era.

This era:

Kobe: 45.1%
Melo: 45.5%
Westbrook: 43.2%
Harden: 44.4%
Curry: 47.1%

Jerry West's last season in 73/74 at age 35, averaged 2.6 steals and 0.7 blocks.

Jordan at 34:
1.5 steals, 0.5 blocks

Wade at 33:
1.2 steals, 0.3 blocks

Kobe at 35:
1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks

Lebron at 30:
1.6 steals, 0.7 blocks

West in 9 finals: 30.5 ppg

Other than Jordan, name another player who averaged 30+ over multiple finals.

GTFO

One could argue that the only reason he got 47.4% (other than he was indeed a sharp shooter) was because defense was bad relative to today. Surely even Mo Williams would average godly numbers if he plays against college level defenses.

[aj1987]

Jerry West shot 47.4% in a fast paced era.

This era:

Kobe: 45.1%
Melo: 45.5%
Westbrook: 43.2%
Harden: 44.4%
Curry: 47.1%

Jerry West's last season in 73/74 at age 35, averaged 2.6 steals and 0.7 blocks.

Jordan at 34:
1.5 steals, 0.5 blocks

Wade at 33:
1.2 steals, 0.3 blocks

Kobe at 35:
1.3 steals, 0.2 blocks

Lebron at 30:
1.6 steals, 0.7 blocks

West in 9 finals: 30.5 ppg

Other than Jordan, name another player who averaged 30+ over multiple finals.

GTFO

Wizards MJ would've averaged 30/7/8 on 50%+ in that era and Achillesbe would average 27/5/5 on 50%+

[dhsilv]

One could argue that the only reason he got 47.4% (other than he was indeed a sharp shooter) was because defense was bad relative to today. Surely even Mo Williams would average godly numbers if he plays against college level defenses.

The league shot terribly so he was even better above the average guy. Now I'd argue it's because after about 15-20 guys most would struggle to make a D1 roster today, but still it's an impressive shooting percentage.

Now...they play defense in college! 60's NBA....I'm not sure they'd even heard of the term yet. Hell the nba barely understood it in the 80's, but the 60's it was a joke. Defense was what happened when you got tired shooting uncontested jumpers.

[bizil]

I know one thing... Big O, West, Wilt, Baylor, Russ, and Big O would be GREAT PLAYERS in ANY ERA! If anything, they were so ahead of their time that it TAKES players from later eras to measure up. Things are supposed to evolve and get better as time goes on. BUT that doesn't mean the best from the earlier eras wouldn't be great players.

[BoutPractice]

It was bad enough that John Havlicek made it all the way from 1962 to 1978 without suffering any suspect drop in production.

Now, John Havlicek is an all-time great. But he wasn't considered the greatest player in the world in the 1960s, far from it - Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West, Baylor were all ahead of him.

There was nothing overly flashy about his game either. He's not out there dribbling between his legs or posterizing defenders - just playing great all-around basketball. If you went by videos alone, ignorant fans could easily say that someone like Havlicek could only make a team in the 1960s.

Yet we know for a fact that his game did translate, and that he was still very solid as late as 1978, averaging 16, 4 and 4 despite being 37 with a ton of mileage.

By 1978 the ABA and NBA had both separated and merged. Julius Erving, Moses Malone, David Thompson, George Gervin, George McGinnis, Adrian Dantley, Bernard King, were all in the league. Larry would get drafted that summer, Magic the next one. The three point shot was soon to be added. Yet old Hondo sure looked like he still belonged... In fact I just found out he even made the all-star game that year! (though as an injury replacement)

What Havlicek had was physical longevity. What he didn't have was some kind of superpower that made his game so different from his peers that it translated better to "modern" basketball.

[Marchesk]

Yet we know for a fact that his game did translate, and that he was still very solid as late as 1978, averaging 16, 4 and 4 despite being 37 with a ton of mileage.

Didn't you know that the modern era began the year Magic was drafted? That's why guys like Kareem, Dr J and Moses all saw big dropoffs starting that season, and didn't even sniff an MVP in the early 80s.

[BoutPractice]

What's so funny about all this is, I can't even begin to imagine what people would say about Larry Bird had he played in the 1960s.

He's just lucky enough to have played in full colour against Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen...

Same goes for Tim Duncan today. Put him in the 1960s, and you can bet today's fans would call him a stiff who wouldn't stand a chance against the likes of DeAndre Jordan...

A lot of opinions about eras are based on perception more than anything else.
But there is a lot, and I mean a lot, of actual evidence that good players don't suddenly become terrible because we've entered some arbitrary new "era".

By the way, there's a YouTube video of Havlicek's very last game (29, 8 and 4 statline... the actual game starts around the 6 min mark):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI

[MiseryCityTexas]

One thing I'll tell you about West, the guy could shoot. I really don't respect the '60's players much, but West arguably has the GOAT IQ and shooting touch.

West had sick handles like a black dude though and could score over much bigger defenders. You guys in this thread are a bunch of idiots.

[MiseryCityTexas]

It was bad enough that John Havlicek made it all the way from 1962 to 1978 without suffering any suspect drop in production.

Now, John Havlicek is an all-time great. But he wasn't considered the greatest player in the world in the 1960s, far from it - Wilt, Russell, Oscar, West, Baylor were all ahead of him.

There was nothing overly flashy about his game either. He's not out there dribbling between his legs or posterizing defenders - just playing great all-around basketball. If you went by videos alone, ignorant fans could easily say that someone like Havlicek could only make a team in the 1960s.

Yet we know for a fact that his game did translate, and that he was still very solid as late as 1978, averaging 16, 4 and 4 despite being 37 with a ton of mileage.


By 1978 the ABA and NBA had both separated and merged. Julius Erving, Moses Malone, David Thompson, George Gervin, George McGinnis, Adrian Dantley, Bernard King, were all in the league. Larry would get drafted that summer, Magic the next one. The three point shot was soon to be added. Yet old Hondo sure looked like he still belonged... In fact I just found out he even made the all-star game that year! (though as an injury replacement)

What Havlicek had was physical longevity. What he didn't have was some kind of superpower that made his game so different from his peers that it translated better to "modern" basketball.

John Havlicek used to knock down reverse layups regulary in the early to mid 60s.

[BoutPractice]

Yeah, but it's not the sort of thing that gets contemporary fans excited. They want to see streetball moves... that's how they determine how good someone would be in the NBA, it seems (even though, ironically, most streetball players don't make the league because they're not good enough playing competitive basketball, which should normally be a clue).

At some point it's like arguing with those who think that 9/11 didn't happen, or that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim... no matter how strong your arguments, no matter how strong your evidence, you won't make them change their minds.

[Psileas]

Yeah, but it's not the sort of thing that gets contemporary fans excited. They want to see streetball moves... that's how they determine how good someone would be in the NBA, it seems (even though, ironically, most streetball players don't make the league because they're not good enough playing competitive basketball, which should normally be a clue).

At some point it's like arguing with those who think that 9/11 didn't happen, or that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim... no matter how strong your arguments, no matter how strong your evidence, you won't make them change their minds.

People like the op are like Flat Earthers to be honest.

To answer the question (not that it matters, people's with the op's puny mental level questions should be viewed as rhetorical), the 60's were "bad" enough to lead to an explosion of the popularity of the NBA, instead of a collapse, despite the media not being anywhere near as versatile as in later decades (no internet, no ESPN, etc) and "bad" enough to have had star players of that era be idolized by players that this troll probably idolizes.

[90sgoat]

Hornacek put up 20ppg in the 90s on a rather similar game to West, except West was vastly superior.

West would put up prime Kobe numbers in this era, tailor made for his game with all the spacing. 28-6-6-3-1 kin of numbers and would in MVP contention every season.

Look at the man's shot, great technique, this is called the eye test you box score watchers. Everyone who has played can tell West would be amazing in any era.

[feyki]

60s was weak as ****. See Wilt. He could do whatever he want.

But he got 1 ring with 2 hof .

Wilt played 130 poss in a game and he is 50 points averaged per game. Kobe played 93 poss in a game and he is 35 points averaged per game . If Kobe played 130 poss , he is averaged 49 points per game.

Does Kobe whatever he want at 2006 ?