did socrates invent the socratic method?

[IGOTGAME]

Socratic method in practice is egotistical endeavor

[RidonKs]

Socratic method in practice is egotistical endeavor

boooo booooooo

don't listen to him everybody

boooooooooo

[Akrazotile]

Socratic method in practice is egotistical endeavor

True, it def makes you feel smarter than the majority of people, who are too scared to engage in it.

[Akrazotile]

Socrates has been a figure of great interest to me since I was a little kid. One of the first people I looked up to since my first cursory introduction to him in like fifth grade. I know a lot of the stuff surrounding the real person Socrates is apocryphal, but just in terms of the idea of him and his legacy, I've always found fascinating. I've also strongly, strongly identified with him as a thinker, so I def have a special attachment and admiration for ol Socrates Johnson.

[Pointguard]

There are a few sources on Socrates, not just Plato: Antisthenes, Xenophon, Aristophanes, all wrote of him, and would have known him personally (the remarkable General Alcibiades was also a pupil of his, and Plato claims they fought together, with Socrates saving his life). It is perfectly understandable him not leaving written works considering the oral tradition in Athens at the time. Basically, there is a fair amount of corroborating evidence that give you an idea of the man, his ideas and behaviours, but nothing certain, as is true of more or less everything that happened back then.


Nor was he more "scientific" from many of the pre-Socratics that came before (whatever that means - many of them sought truth, but Democritus probably came closest to the ideas of modern science - Socrates was not a materialist). And no, i don't think Socrates 'invented' such a method: he just refined it into an art-form.

Are you referring to me? I never said more scientific. I said very scientific in his approach. Oratory was always a refined art form (whatever that means - certainly an Art form in Egypt and China long before Socrates and existed as a refined art form long before Greece or Roman were recognized states).

[Dresta]

You said his being "very scientific" was what differentiated him from prior writers: that is simply not true. Don't get all huffy because what you said was wrong, just admit it and move on.

Nor was i talking about oratory, or rhetoric, but the Socratic method, as mentioned in the thread title (i.e. dialectical interrogation, almost always suffused with a sense of diffident irony for the sake of persuasiveness). That is what he made into an art-form particular to himself, his modus operandi (though i guess Plato had a lot to do with this as well).

[IGOTGAME]

You said his being "very scientific" was what differentiated him from prior writers: that is simply not true. Don't get all huffy because what you said was wrong, just admit it and move on.

Nor was i talking about oratory, or rhetoric, but the Socratic method, as mentioned in the thread title (i.e. dialectical interrogation, almost always suffused with a sense of diffident irony for the sake of persuasiveness). That is what he made into an art-form particular to himself, his modus operandi (though i guess Plato had a lot to do with this as well).

I went through this in law school. Its totally different than what you get in undergrad and its not fun. Anyone who engages in this type of method in casual conversation is a douche. It can be fine for work or mentoring but its condescending to do to a peer.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Socrates has been a figure of great interest to me since I was a little kid. One of the first people I looked up to since my first cursory introduction to him in like fifth grade. I know a lot of the stuff surrounding the real person Socrates is apocryphal, but just in terms of the idea of him and his legacy, I've always found fascinating. I've also strongly, strongly identified with him as a thinker, so I def have a special attachment and admiration for ol Socrates Johnson.

You are so, so, so, so special. Your momma must be super proud of raising such an incredibly bright boy.

Every child is unique and amazing but you were born with a brilliance that really shone way above your peasant classmates. How splendid that when others sought guidance from the likes of He-Man and Hassellhoff, you courageously led the way choosing such a unique and special and true character! So so so unique and special and amazing. Man, next thing you'll be enlightening the crowd on how dumb they are with their comic book movie tastes and glorifying losers in the media. A sheep you most certainly are not!

Happy now you fucking faggot. F*cking bigger pansy than the rest of us combined. F*cking more of a liberal try-hard than everyone. F*king in need of more reassuring praise than a fatherless little girl who cuts herself.

The dried up smegma of a fukking illiterate Medieval Serf has more intelligence than your entire lineage will EVER have, sh!thead. The slight deviation of posture the most obedient silent Nazi has a more original creativity persona than you will ever have.

Thank you for proving case in point what a f*cking hypocrite you are and being EXACTLY the kind of persona you so eloquently speak out against.

[Akrazotile]

I went through this in law school. Its totally different than what you get in undergrad and its not fun. Anyone who engages in this type of method in casual conversation is a douche. It can be fine for work or mentoring but its condescending to do to a peer.

It's how you expose people who are purporting false truths. Who cares if it's condescending. If someone doesnt like getting their bullshit rung out like a damp towel, they shouldnt trumpet shit opinions.

[Akrazotile]

You are so, so, so, so special. Your momma must be super proud of raising such an incredibly bright boy.

Every child is unique and amazing but you were born with a brilliance that really shone way above your peasant classmates. How splendid that when others sought guidance from the likes of He-Man and Hassellhoff, you courageously led the way choosing such a unique and special and true character! So so so unique and special and amazing. Man, next thing you'll be enlightening the crowd on how dumb they are with their comic book movie tastes and glorifying losers in the media. A sheep you most certainly are not!

Happy now you fucking faggot. F*cking bigger pansy than the rest of us combined. F*cking more of a liberal try-hard than everyone. F*king in need of more reassuring praise than a fatherless little girl who cuts herself.

The dried up smegma of a fukking illiterate Medieval Serf has more intelligence than your entire lineage will EVER have, sh!thead. The slight deviation of posture the most obedient silent Nazi has a more original creativity persona than you will ever have.

Thank you for proving case in point what a f*cking hypocrite you are and being EXACTLY the kind of persona you so eloquently speak out against.

Sorry to send you into meltdown mode bro.

I didnt wanna have to make shit get real, you know I'm cool with whatever people wanna say on the internet, but I dont like people playin on my phone. Then I gotta keep it real.

Get it in while ya can tho!

[RidonKs]

It's how you expose people who are purporting false truths. Who cares if it's condescending. If someone doesnt like getting their bullshit rung out like a damp towel, they shouldnt trumpet shit opinions.

but isn't that just sophistry? i'm all for embarrassing somebody if i have something funny to say but going out of my way to prove they overstepped their bounds on some subject.... i do that when i'm drunk and only with people i instinctively don't like.

goddamn j$ v starface taking over everywhere. that was indeed a good rip.

[Akrazotile]

but isn't that just sophistry? i'm all for embarrassing somebody if i have something funny to say but going out of my way to prove they overstepped their bounds on some subject.... i do that when i'm drunk and only with people i instinctively don't like.

goddamn j$ v starface taking over everywhere. that was indeed a good rip.

No, it exposes sophistry.

Sophists are folks like Clinton and Obama, speakers who invoke emotional triggers, tell you what they know you want to hear - but subtly tailored to advancing their agenda. They encourage cults of personality and mob agreement.

Socratic truth exposes these mirages for what they are - hypnotic window dressings on fundamentally illogical concepts.

[RidonKs]

no dude i think sophistry is the art of persuasion. it's more like propaganda than what you describing which is more like demagoguery or a bunch of other things.

Greek philosophy before Socrates basically splits into two groups:

1. Poets who were sweeping but vague, and who flirted with profound truths and paradoxes but didn't do much to develop their ideas ("Presocratics"); and

2. Orators, most of whom were baldly relativists and profiteers. ("Sophists")

they taught like lawyer jargon tactics to rich people

[Pointguard]

You said his being "very scientific" was what differentiated him from prior writers: that is simply not true. Don't get all huffy because what you said was wrong, just admit it and move on.

It wasn't wrong. Oratory is more artistic. Its a show of language and pursues a point with artistic tools that you will unwittingly describe below. The Socratic approach is less show, and more incisive and scientific in its approach. Help me out here, you're saying it was more artistically refined. I'm saying it was approached more scientifically to bear out intent, fact or important detail.

Nor was i talking about oratory, or rhetoric, but the Socratic method, as mentioned in the thread title (i.e. dialectical interrogation, almost always suffused with a sense of diffident irony for the sake of persuasiveness). That is what he made into an art-form particular to himself, his modus operandi (though i guess Plato had a lot to do with this as well).

What you just described in the first parenthesis is particular to Oratory, a predecessor of the Socratic method. It can be a feature used in the Socratic method but not essential to it at all.

[RidonKs]

It wasn't wrong. Oratory is more artistic. Its a show of language and pursues a point with artistic tools that you will unwittingly describe below. The Socratic approach is less show, and more incisive and scientific in its approach. Help me out here, you're saying it was more artistically refined. I'm saying it was approached more scientifically to bear out intent, fact or important detail.

i think you can easily say the socratic method is very similar to the scientific method... it's a vocal and therefore naturally stylistic demonstration but it follows the same principles in process.