SF Comparison: 2014 vs. 1990

[GODbe]

It was leaning towards 2014 to begin with but after you added in Melo and others it's clear-cut now.

2014>>>>>>>>>90s and it's not close.

[3ball]

It was leaning towards 2014 to begin with but after you added in Melo and others it's clear-cut now.

2014>>>>>>>>>90s and it's not close.

you go with 3 the HOF team and i'll go with the 8 HOF team

[3ball]

2014 bigs have an offensive deficit...AND you're counting Bron and Melo as bigs?

those can't BOTH be true.

But it is true - Even if Lebron and Melo are included in the PF category, the 2014 bigs don't have as much offensive skill as 1990, because there just aren't AS MANY offensively skilled bigs in today's game.

Here are the bigs from 1990 and 2014 that have go-to offensive games... You have to be able to run offense through them and they must have true offensive skill... They can't just be guys that finish plays (i.e. Ibaka, Tyson Chandler, etc.)


Go-To Centers

2014 Centers - Demarcus Cousins.. Brook Lopez.. Tim Duncan.. Pau Gasol.. Chris Bosh.. Marc Gasol.. Andrew Bogut.. Anthony Davis (although he mostly just finishes plays right now)

Total: 8


1990 Centers - Robinson... Ewing... Olajuwon... Moses Malone... Robert Parish... Rik Smits... Vlade Divac.. Brad Daughtery... Sam Bowie... Rony Seikaly.

Total: 10



Go-To Power Forwards

2014 PF's - Bron.. Melo.. Kevin Love... Blake Griffin... Nowitski... Aldridge... David Lee... Zach Randolph... Paul Milsap... David West.. Nene Hilario

Total: 11


1990 PF's - Karl Malone.. Charles Barkely... Tom Chambers... Kevin McHale... Terry Cummings... Larry Nance... Roy Tarpley... Detlef Schrempf... Armen Gilliam... Danny Manning... Otis Thorpe.. Shawn Kemp.

Total: 12


... Clearly, if you take Lebron and Melo out of the PF category and put them in SF, there are only 9 PF's with real offensive games (and of course only 8 Centers).

ditto for the centers, where even a cursory glance shows vast inferiority in 2014 compared to 1990

this is due to the spacing in today's game that reduces the need to score ON defenders as often, which produces a lot of non-shot-creating bigs whose only job is to dunk/finish plays and move their feet well defensively.
.

[HurricaneKid]

Honestly, I don't see one guy from 2014 that I'd take over 1990.

I'm quite confident Deng would kill Reggie Lewis.

[3ball]

I'm quite confident Deng would kill Reggie Lewis.

that's interesting, because going by the original list of SF's shown below (that use the player positions from bballref) that's the only matchup where i might take 2014 over 1990..

[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014[COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR]1990

Kevin Durant.................... Larry Bird*
Paul George..................... Dominique Wilkins*
Kawhi Leonard................. James Worthy*
Nicholas Batum................ Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward.............. Chris Mullin*
Rudy Gay........................ Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala................ Adrian Dantley*
JR Smith......................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng..................... Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith...................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons............. Mark Aguirre
Shawn Marion.................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)

even then, i'd still go with lewis because he was very easily the better offensive player and he was known as a good defender... he did block jordan 4 times in one game.


using the lists shown below that included Lebron and Melo as SF's, 1990 still has the overall advantage, albiet not by the wide margin that the previous list showed..

[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014 SF's[COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR]1990 SF's

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. James Worthy*
Paul George.......................... Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................ Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey

HOF (*)

[oarabbus]

Based on bballref, which is the go-to source for these kinds of things, Lebron and Carmelo played PF last year - and clearly, the best way to do the analysis is to leave it like that..

Nonetheless...


[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]2014[COLOR="White"].................................[/COLOR]1990

Lebron James*...................... Larry Bird*
Kevin Durant*....................... Dominique Wilkins*
Carmelo Anthony*................. James Worthy*
Paul George.......................... Scottie Pippen*
Gordon Hayward................... Chris Mullin*
Kawhi Leonard...................... Bernard King*
Trevor Ariza.......................... Alex English*
Andre Iguodala..................... Adrian Dantley*
Nicholas Batum..................... Derrick McKey
Luol Deng............................ Reggie Lewis
Josh Smith........................... Orlando Woolridge
Chandler Parsons.................. Mark Aguirre
Rudy Gay............................. Jerome Kersey


So even if you want to include Carmelo and Lebron, 2014 still loses - only three HOF for 2014 compared to eight for 1990... the first three spots are close, but everything else down the line goes to 1990... and now the PF's get destroyed even worse without Melo and Lebron.

I won't choose between Bird and Bron. I think Bird is superior, but obviously people will feel that way about Bron.

Yeah... it's not even close to a 1990s sweep as you're trying to make it.

[PsychoBe]

I won't choose between Bird and Bron. I think Bird is superior, but obviously people will feel that way about Bron.

Yeah... it's not even close to a 1990s sweep as you're trying to make it.

did you bold and say andre igudola was better than adrian dantley and that kawhi leonard was better than bernard king?

have you even heard of those players before?

i would also be hesitant to take kevin durant over 'nique simply because in no shape or form is durant going to beat those celtics and bulls and pistons teams.

[Element]

SPECIFICALLY HOW?..

I'm giving whatever concession posters want.

You want Lebron and Melo as SF's?.. No problem... see the previous post (posted again below) where I did just that...




As you can see, although the first three spots are close, all the rest go to 1990... and 1990 beats 2014 in HOF by a score of 8 to 3.. it's not close...

And keep in mind that the bigs (PF's and Centers) for 2014 lack offense compared to 1990 even WITH Lebron and Melo as PF's, so by putting them in the SF category instead, it really decimates an already inferior cast of bigs.
.

Bigs lacking offense today? How?

Kevin Love
Blake Griffin
Demarcus Cousins
Brook Lopez
LaMarcus Aldridge
Dirk Nowitzki

and, for you:

Carmelo Anthony
LeBron James


that's great offensive talent right there. What you're trying to get at is today's crop of C's, which everyone knows is wack. But the PF position is looking pretty good with Davis, Love and Blake entering their primes in the near future.

SFs in 2014 take a huge dump on 1990 SFs

Melo, Bron, KD, George>

Sorry, 1990 Bird was not that great. This is bad back Bird we're talking about here. Not to mention this is a version of Pippen prior to his prime, too.

[oarabbus]

did you bold and say andre igudola was better than adrian dantley and that kawhi leonard was better than bernard king?

have you even heard of those players before?

i would also be hesitant to take kevin durant over 'nique simply because in no shape or form is durant going to beat those celtics and bulls and pistons teams.

Adrian Dantley was a one dimensional scorer, an exceptional one, but just a scorer. Iggy is one of the greatest defenders the game has ever seen, in fact he led the entire league in +/- last year. Warriors were a top 5 defense with him on the floor, bottom 8 when he sat. He did similar things to almost every team he's been on.

Kawhi Leonard is the youngest player to win FMVP in a long ass time, and already has more rings and FMVPs than Bernard King. He's a great defender and rebounder too.

I guess you don't value defense, that's fine, but Iggy is already an all-time defender and Kawhi will likely will be one as well. The Scottie Pippen mold.

[PsychoBe]

Adrian Dantley was a one dimensional scorer, an exceptional one, but just a scorer. Iggy is one of the greatest defenders the game has ever seen, in fact he led the entire league in +/- last year. Warriors were a top 5 defense with him on the floor, bottom 8 when he sat. He did similar things to almost every team he's been on.

Kawhi Leonard is the youngest player to win FMVP in a long ass time, and already has more rings than Bernard King. He's a great defender and rebounder too.

I guess you don't value defense, that's fine, but Iggy is already an all-time defender and Kawhi will likely will be one as well. The Scottie Pippen mold.

too bad all his defense did was land him in foul trouble throughout the playoffs and leave no impact on games. great "defense" this day and age is whether or not the whistle is in your favor due to all the soft rules to benefit offensive players.

call me when kawhi averages over 30 points per game and drops 60 in one. put bernard king on the current spurs team in his prime and he'd probably take fmvp too considering that he has to play alongside a declining duncan manu and parker.

literally the only player(s) who wins head-to-head on the list are carmelo anthony and rudy gay. the rest are either questionable or you need to do your research if you disagree.

[oarabbus]

too bad all his defense did was land him in foul trouble throughout the playoffs and leave no impact on games. great "defense" this day and age is whether or not the whistle is in your favor due to all the soft rules to benefit offensive players.

call me when kawhi averages over 30 points per game and drops 60 in one. put bernard king on the current spurs team in his prime and he'd probably take fmvp too considering that he has to play alongside a declining duncan manu and parker.

literally the only player(s) who wins head-to-head on the list are carmelo anthony and rudy gay. the rest are either questionable or you need to do your research if you disagree.

Alright I'll concede that Iggy and Kawhi are reaches. Carmelo over Worthy can go either way (worthy obviously much more accomplished) and I'll still take Batum over Mckey.

[SHAQisGOAT]

You should do 1985 (when taking everything into consideration, not just "names")...

-Larry Bird (prime)
-Julius Erving (34 years old, could still ball)
-Bernard King (peak, great SF, close to impossible to stop)
-Dominique Wilkins (starting his prime years)
-Adrian Dantley (beast of a scorer, prime)
-Alex English (great scorer, nice all-around, smooth player)
-James Worthy (beginning of his prime)
-Mark Aguirre (going through his best years, really good SF)
-Paul Pressey (one of the best point forwards ever at his best, great defender too)
-Bobby Jones (one of the greatest defensive players ever, and role players ever, in his penultimate season, still good for all-defensive 2nd)
-Purvis Short (pretty good scorer, peaked at 28 PPG, that year)
-Orlando Woolridge (legit 20 PPG scorer, athletic beast, would've been even "better" in today's game)
-Kiki Vandeweghe (really good scorer, one of the best shooters ever, more athletic "version" of Peja, say)
-Kelly Tripucka (pretty good scorer)
-Mike Mitchell (legit 20 PPG scorer)
-Rodney McCray (great defender, sophomore season)
-Danny Vranes (pretty good and underrated defender, all-defensive 2nd)
-Roy Hinson (6'9'', athletic, good scorer and defender)

Hard to **** with that, when you take into account all the players' "levels" in those years.

[3ball]

You should do 1985 (when taking everything into consideration, not just "names")...

-Larry Bird (prime)
-Julius Erving (34 years old, could still ball)
-Bernard King (peak, great SF, close to impossible to stop)
-Dominique Wilkins (starting his prime years)
-Adrian Dantley (beast of a scorer, prime)
-Alex English (great scorer, nice all-around, smooth player)
-James Worthy (beginning of his prime)
-Mark Aguirre (going through his best years, really good SF)
-Paul Pressey (one of the best point forwards ever at his best, great defender too)
-Bobby Jones (one of the greatest defensive players ever, and role players ever, in his penultimate season, still good for all-defensive 2nd)
-Purvis Short (pretty good scorer, peaked at 28 PPG, that year)
-Orlando Woolridge (legit 20 PPG scorer, athletic beast, would've been even "better" in today's game)
-Kiki Vandeweghe (really good scorer, one of the best shooters ever, more athletic "version" of Peja, say)
-Kelly Tripucka (pretty good scorer)
-Mike Mitchell (legit 20 PPG scorer)
-Rodney McCray (great defender, sophomore season)
-Danny Vranes (pretty good and underrated defender, all-defensive 2nd)
-Roy Hinson (6'9'', athletic, good scorer and defender)

Hard to **** with that, when you take into account all the players' "levels" in those years.

interestingly enough, 1985 was the year I was going to use, but then I figured that more people would have heard of the players from 1990 (i was dead wrong - apparently most posters on here started watching the game within the last 5 years).

[3ball]

Many of the best SF's in 2014 are role players... you can't compare that to HOF and All-NBA players... it's ridiculous to do so.

[3ball]

The remarkable thing is that on the original lists, 1990 was SO far ahead with their 8 HOF's, that they STILL had a material edge on 2014 even after I included Lebron and Melo as SF's instead of the position they played all year (PF).