Peak DWade or Peak TMac?

[rodman91]

I think 06 Wade was better than 09 Wade..Not by stats but he had much more agressive playing style both on defense and offense.

Because of that agression in early years I'll go with Wade.Since injury he has a lot "out of focus" games even if he scores high.

[PJR]

If you're a sucker for deep shooting range, and guys who can make bad shots you take McGrady. If you value efficiency and winning, you'll side with Wade's brand of basketball(as most coaches and top tier basketball executives would).

[Dragonyeuw]

If you're a sucker for deep shooting range, and guys who can make bad shots you take McGrady. If you value efficiency and winning, you'll side with Wade's brand of basketball(as most coaches and top tier basketball executives would).

What had Wade done in terms of winning, without a great team around him? In 2008 and 2009, he had mediocre teammates and was ousted in the first round. Tmac,during his Orlando career, had mediocre teammates and couldn't get out of the first round. What's the difference? Tmac's body broke down just as he was getting a decent team around him in Houston, and it didn't help matters that the franchise center was just as brittle as he was. Reality is we never got to see a healthy Tmac with a 'really' good team.

[thejumpa]

Give me TMac. They are both extremely close though.

["Jesus"]

Peak T-Mac > Any version of wade.

[RRR3]

There isn't a single person other than maybe yourself that actually thinks that.


The only way for this debate to be legit is if we say Tmac's peak lasted for last 35 seconds in that Rockets-Spurs game.

You're an idiot. I guarantee you I could find a few people who'd agree with me. And I said arguable you ****tard.

[catch24]

You're an idiot. I guarantee you I could find a few people who'd agree with me. And I said arguable you ****tard.

Prime or peak? Because Kobe's 2006-2008 seasons were clearly better than any of Mac's (including his 2002-2003 season).

[RRR3]

Prime or peak? Because Kobe's 2006-2008 seasons were clearly better than any of Mac's (including his 2002-2003 season).

It wasn't clearly better. As bad his supporting cast was, T-Mac's was even worse, and he was more efficient. T-Mac is one of the few in history to have a PER over 30, which he did in 2002-03. He scored 32 PPG as opposed to Kobe's 35, but Kobe shot an insane amount that year (even for a volume scorer, which both of them were) and the handchecking rule was in effect and that year featured some insane scoring.

The top 20 scorers of 2005-06:
1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 35.4
2. Allen Iverson-PHI 33.0
3. LeBron James-CLE 31.4
4. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 29.3
5. Dwyane Wade-MIA 27.2
6. Paul Pierce-BOS 26.8
7. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.6
8. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 26.5
9. Michael Redd-MIL 25.4
10. Ray Allen-SEA 25.1
11. Elton Brand-LAC 24.7
12. Vince Carter-NJN 24.2
13. Jason Richardson-GSW 23.2
14. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.5
15. Shawn Marion-PHO 21.8
16. Kevin Garnett-MIN 21.8
17. Mike Bibby-SAC 21.1
18. Antawn Jamison-WAS 20.5
19. Pau Gasol-MEM 20.4
20. Mike James-TOR 20.3

That's a lot of guys around 25 or more a game, and you multiple have players on that list scoring near or at their absolute peak.

[catch24]

It wasn't clearly better. As bad his supporting cast was, T-Mac's was even worse, and he was more efficient.

How was T-Mac more efficient?

Mcgrady in 2003: .564 TS%; .505 eFG%

Bryant in 2006: .559 TS%; .502 eFG% on 3+ more PPG
in 2007: .580; .502
in 2008: .576; .503

When you factor in postseason play, Kobe was clearly better (don't confuse clearly with 'easily'). If you're including defense you'll find few and far between that disagree with me.

I understand Mac had a 30+ per, which is an incredible feat (really shows how legendary he was an all-around player that year), but Kobe was a better scorer, shooter, and defender.

The top 20 scorers of 2005-06:
1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 35.4
2. Allen Iverson-PHI 33.0
3. LeBron James-CLE 31.4
4. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 29.3
5. Dwyane Wade-MIA 27.2
6. Paul Pierce-BOS 26.8
7. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.6
8. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 26.5
9. Michael Redd-MIL 25.4
10. Ray Allen-SEA 25.1
11. Elton Brand-LAC 24.7
12. Vince Carter-NJN 24.2
13. Jason Richardson-GSW 23.2
14. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.5
15. Shawn Marion-PHO 21.8
16. Kevin Garnett-MIN 21.8
17. Mike Bibby-SAC 21.1
18. Antawn Jamison-WAS 20.5
19. Pau Gasol-MEM 20.4
20. Mike James-TOR 20.3

That's a lot of guys around 25 or more a game, and you multiple have players on that list scoring near or at their absolute peak.

Kobe was putting up 30+ in the regular and postseasons prior to the rule changes (arguably had his best all-around statistical season in 2002-2003 as well); the rule changes were noticeable but are overstated on these boards... just saying.

[ThaSwagg3r]

You're an idiot. I guarantee you I could find a few people who'd agree with me. And I said arguable you ****tard.

Nope, not even. If Tmac and Kobe were arguable in '02-'03 (upper hand probably goes to Kobe) and Kobe has had much better seasons than '02-'03 what does that say?

[RRR3]

How was T-Mac more efficient?

Mcgrady in 2003: .564 TS%; .505 eFG%

Bryant in 2006: .559 TS%; .502 eFG% on 3+ more PPG
in 2007: .580; .502
in 2008: .576; .503

When in you factor in postseason play, Kobe was clearly better (don't confuse clearly with 'easily'). If you're including defense I'm sure you'll find few and far between that disagree with me.

I understand Mac had a 30+ per, which is an incredible feat (really shows how legendary he was an all-around player that year).

The top 20 scorers of 2005-06:
1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 35.4
2. Allen Iverson-PHI 33.0
3. LeBron James-CLE 31.4
4. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 29.3
5. Dwyane Wade-MIA 27.2
6. Paul Pierce-BOS 26.8
7. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.6
8. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 26.5
9. Michael Redd-MIL 25.4
10. Ray Allen-SEA 25.1
11. Elton Brand-LAC 24.7
12. Vince Carter-NJN 24.2
13. Jason Richardson-GSW 23.2
14. Chris Bosh-TOR 22.5
15. Shawn Marion-PHO 21.8
16. Kevin Garnett-MIN 21.8
17. Mike Bibby-SAC 21.1
18. Antawn Jamison-WAS 20.5
19. Pau Gasol-MEM 20.4
20. Mike James-TOR 20.3



Kobe was putting up 30+ in the regular and postseason prior to the rules changes (arguably had his best all-around statistical season in 2002-2003 as well); the rule changes were noticeable but overstated on these boards... just saying.

T-Mac was more efficient in 2002-03. I didn't say he was more efficient in any other year (not sure if he was but they were fairly even in efficiency until McGrady started declining in 2005). And McGrady teammates on that 2002-03 squad are just unbelievably bad. And what he did against the Pistons, taking them to 7 games (I realize they were up 3-1, but that in itself is incredible) was ridiculous. Here are his teammates from that year http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2003.html. And remember Grant Hill was hurt most of the year and for the playoffs, and Mike Miller was traded midway through the year. McGrady's defense gets underrated too much, as he was lazy, but could definitely play defense when he wanted too, and there were some years that he played pretty damn good d the whole season.

[RRR3]

Nope, not even. If Tmac and Kobe were arguable in '02-'03 (upper hand probably goes to Kobe) and Kobe has had much better seasons than '02-'03 what does that say?

He's never had a "MUCH" better season and he was not better in 02-03. I swear you would argue with me if I said the sky was blue.

[RRR3]

Also, McGrady has averaged 28.5 PPG in the playoffs career wise. Granted, it's only a 38 game sample size, but it's just worth noting.

[catch24]

T-Mac was more efficient in 2002-03.

More efficient in 2003 than Kobe? I agree; however he's never been more efficient than 2006-2008 Kobe which is what I thought we were debating.

And McGrady teammates on that 2002-03 squad are just unbelievably bad.

Kobe dragged a cast of clowns into the postseason too; in a deeper/better conference faring much better (talking about individual play here).

It's close but it's clear that Kobe was better when you take into account the other aspects I've posted (defense, postseason-play, supporting casts, etc).

[ThaSwagg3r]

More efficient in 2003 than Kobe? I agree; however he's never been more efficient than 2006-2008 Kobe which is what I thought we were debating.


Kobe dragged a cast of clowns into the postseason too; in a deeper/better conference faring much better (talking about individual play here).

It's close but it's clear that Kobe was better when you take into account the other aspects I've posted (defense, postseason-play, supporting casts, etc).

Game over.