LeBron is might be better now than ever before ...

[SamuraiSWISH]

Ok, you could do the same shit for LeBron's team the last 3 seasons. You could even include 2013 considering how awful Wade/Bosh were in the playoffs, and 2012 with Bosh missing almost two series

Not this year. Cavs without LeBron in this year's East could still get to the Finals.

Without LeBron ...

Miami could still get to the Finals in 2011. Would just be a much greater struggle against Boston and Chicago.

2012, with no Bosh or LeBron, Wade can't even get past that rather loaded for a low seed New York Knicks team.

And in 2013 would've went down to the wire against Indiana, but they still could've potentially got there.

[Dray n Klay]

Not this year. Cavs without LeBron in this year's East could still get to the Finals.

Without LeBron ...

Miami could still get to the Finals in 2011. Would just be a much greater struggle against Boston and Chicago.

2012, with no Bosh or LeBron, Wade can't even get past that rather loaded for a low seed New York Knicks team.

And in 2013 would've went down to the wire against Indiana, but they still could've potentially got there.

Explain how the Cavs beat Toronto






The Cavs are easily a lottery team without lebron, look at their record without him

[Segatti]

Not this year. Cavs without LeBron in this year's East could still get to the Finals.

Without LeBron ...

Miami could still get to the Finals in 2011. Would just be a much greater struggle against Boston and Chicago.

2012, with no Bosh or LeBron, Wade can't even get past that rather loaded for a low seed New York Knicks team.

And in 2013 would've went down to the wire against Indiana, but they still could've potentially got there.

What? Cavs without Lebron is a lottery team.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Love isn't reduced to spot up shooter.

You're on rocks if you don't think

G - Kyrie
G - Shumpert
F - JR Smith
F - Love
C - TT

Isn't good enough to beat Toronto in seven ish games ... in this year's hideously weak league, in an even worse conference.

[Screamin A Smit]

Love isn't reduced to spot up shooter.

You're on rocks if you don't think

G - Kyrie
G - Shumpert
F - JR Smith
F - Love
C - TT

Isn't good enough to beat Toronto in seven ish games ... in this year's hideously weak league, in an even worse conference.

That exact lineup is 2-13 in the games LeBron doesnt play

[Da_Realist]

On one hand I agree.

But it's not the perfect set up considering he likely wouldn't win without Kyrie or Love. Let a lone both being out.

This season was the perfect set up, especially narratively after GS won 73 games and was overwhelming favorites. Particularly after the first 2 games. And Bron had both of his 2 next best players still along side him, while note being expected to win under any circumstances.

As for 2015?

Stealing two games from a 67 win team with Mozgov, and Delladova as your next best players, on some quality performances is nothing to sneeze at ... I agree if he was more clutch and/or shot better, they could've won game 1 in regulation. Kyrie never gets hurt and anything can happen from then on in terms of series out come.

But, even sans the pressure of expectation when Kyrie went down, what he did was still impressive. And IMO should've been Finals MVP regardless.

Looks good on paper (if you ignore fg%). Different story actually watching the games.

[SamuraiSWISH]

That exact lineup is 2-13 in the games LeBron doesnt play

Small sample size, with unclear roles without their best player.

In a whole season, they'd have more time and opportunity to gel. 15 games and you're not even at Christmas during the actual season.

[Screamin A Smit]

Small sample size, with unclear roles without their best player.

In a whole season, they'd have more time and opportunity to gel. 15 games and you're not even at Christmas during the actual season.

All those players were in the lottery before LeBron joined them


None of them have a track record of success without LeBron

[SamuraiSWISH]

All those players were in the lottery before LeBron joined them


None of them have a track record of success without LeBron

All those players were super young or on terrible franchises without ,ugh surrounding talent as well. I'm not saying it doesn't take LeBron's leadership to make them great. Get off the defensive of your man crush. What I am saying is in this hideously weak league last year, in an even worse conference, that team without LeBron given a full chance to gel could go anywhere in the conference.

[RedBlackAttack]

All those players were super young or on terrible franchises without ,ugh surrounding talent as well. I'm not saying it doesn't take LeBron's leadership to make them great. Get off the defensive of your man crush. What I am saying is in this hideously weak league last year, in an even worse conference, that team without LeBron given a full chance to gel could go anywhere in the conference.

You're wasting keystrokes. Ignore the morons/trolls.

[CTbasketball92]

Explain how the Cavs beat Toronto






The Cavs are easily a lottery team without lebron, look at their record without him

It feels odd to use the 2013-2014 Cavs record of 33 wins as a positive, but I'm going to do it. Those Cavs won 33 games with Kyrie as a 21-year-old and dion waiters as the second best player. With Kyrie being a good bit better than he was then and the Cavs having a very good 2nd-3rd option player in Kevin Love and a pretty solid J.R. Smith, I think this Cavs team could definitely win 48+ games. Just give them a bit of time to adjust without LeBron and they easily make the playoffs, and could definitely still get to the ECF, though they'd prob. lose to the Pacers now, and the raptors would also make it close.

[Screamin A Smit]

All those players were super young or on terrible franchises without ,ugh surrounding talent as well. I'm not saying it doesn't take LeBron's leadership to make them great. Get off the defensive of your man crush. What I am saying is in this hideously weak league last year, in an even worse conference, that team without LeBron given a full chance to gel could go anywhere in the conference.

I have a question, will they do as good without LeBron as they did with LeBron?




Like the 94 Bulls won the same amount of games with MJ as without

[RedBlackAttack]

It feels odd to use the 2013-2014 Cavs record of 33 wins as a positive, but I'm going to do it. Those Cavs won 33 games with Kyrie as a 21-year-old and dion waiters as the second best player. With Kyrie being a good bit better than he was then and the Cavs having a very good 2nd-3rd option player in Kevin Love and a pretty solid J.R. Smith, I think this Cavs team could definitely win 48+ games. Just give them a bit of time to adjust without LeBron and they easily make the playoffs, and could definitely still get to the ECF, though they'd prob. lose to the Pacers now, and the raptors would also make it close.

Keep in mind that they were close to signing Gordon Hayward in the 2014 offseason before James made it known that he was interested in coming back to Cleveland. So, instead of starting Alonzo Gee or Earl Clark at SF like they did to start the 2013 and 2014 seasons, respectively, it was about to become a really good player either way.

The team that you build around LeBron James is completely different than any other roster in the league. It has to be due to the uniqueness of his skillset and, when he is out of the lineup, there isn't anyone who can replicate what he does to make the team go.

That doesn't mean everyone else on the team would be incapable of winning in a different situation with a roster more suited for them to be the #1 option.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I have a question, will they do as good without LeBron as they did with LeBron?




Like the 94 Bulls won the same amount of games with MJ as without

The '94 Bulls were a better upgraded and different roster. Yet still won less games. So, you don't even have your facts together.

Did they win a championship like they did with Jordan, or did they lose in the 2nd round of the playoffs?

'94 Bulls are very similar to this year's Miami team. They got to the second round and lost too. Only the Heat did this without their second best player of the LeBron era Miami Heat. It would be like Chicago not having Grant and still getting to the 2nd round.

If Wade and then LeBron era Heat roster had Bosh this year, they could possibly even make the Finals.



No one is saying they'd do as well without the best player in the game. What I am saying is that roster without LeBron can advance in the east, and even possibly given enough gel time, is talented enough to beat the all mighty Kyle Lowry / Demar Derozen Raptors.

[CTbasketball92]

Keep in mind that they were close to signing Gordon Hayward in the 2014 offseason before James made it known that he was interested in coming back to Cleveland. So, instead of starting Alonzo Gee or Earl Clark at SF like they did to start the 2013 and 2014 seasons, respectively, it was about to become a really good player either way.

The team that you build around LeBron James is completely different than any other roster in the league. It has to be due to the uniqueness of his skillset and, when he is out of the lineup, there isn't anyone who can replicate what he does to make the team go.

That doesn't mean everyone else on the team would be incapable of winning in a different situation with a roster more suited for them to be the #1 option.

VERY true, and I've actually said that before, that's why, I think, losing LeBron is so devastating. LeBron is essentially an all star PG/SG/SF/PF, so you don't need to get an andre iguodala, or a really good backup pg or a very good other perimeter player. You just get good knockdown shooters, and maybe a solid defender or two. So if LeBron were to leave, they'd definitely have to fill in. The question is: who would those players be?