Both LeBron and Jordan had 0 all-star teammates in 2016 and 1987 respectively

[Screamin A Smit]

Therefore they both had the SAME level of help from their supporting cast



The results?


LeBron - Won championship while beating a 73 win team


Jordan - Swept in the 1st round






















The only logical conclusion to LeBron doing FAR better than Jordan, with the same teammates, is if LeBron is also FAR better than Jordan


Makes sense?

[TheWinningFam]

Think about it, Kyrie was leading the cavs to the first pick in the draft every season, lebron comes back and they go from #1 pick to NBA champion in 2 seasons. and it would have been 1 had they not been riddled with injuries
Goat impact!

[3ball]

.
Jordan won without any all-stars in 1991, whereas Lebron has never won without at least 2 all-stars, current or former

Heck, Lebron's THIRD option was a 10-time all-star (Bosh) - that's more than any 3rd option ever..

And Love was 2nd Team All-NBA in 2014 before joining Lebron.. So Lebron's 3rd options are among the best of all time.. Lebron can only win with 2 other stars, whereas Jordan 3-peated with just 1 star.

[SouBeachTalents]

.
Jordan won without any all-stars in 1991, whereas Lebron has never won without at least 2 all-stars, current or former

Heck, Lebron's THIRD option was a 10-time all-star (Bosh) - that's more than any 3rd option ever..

And Love was 2nd Team All-NBA in 2014 before joining Lebron.. So Lebron's 3rd options are among the best of all time.. Lebron can only win with 2 other stars, whereas Jordan 3-peated with just 1 star.

Pippen was an all-star in 1990

And as for their third options

Grant 91-'93 PO: 12/8/3 on 56%
Bosh '12-'13 PO: 13/8/1 on 47%
K Love 2016 PO: 15/9/2 on 39%

[bigkingsfan]

BJ Armstrong was voted as a starter after MJ Jordan retired, that negative impact yo.

[3ball]

Pippen was an all-star in 1990

And as for their third options

Grant 91-'93 PO: 12/8/3 on 56%
Bosh '12-'13 PO: 13/8/1 on 47%
K Love 2016 PO: 15/9/2 on 39%

Bosh is a 10-time all-star, so he's far better relative to his competition than Grant (1-time all-star).. Ditto for All-NBA Love, which means that Lebron CLEARLY has the superior supporting talent at the 3rd option slot.

However, your stats show that the production of Bosh and Love declined significantly alongside Lebron, while Pippen and Grant played to full capacity alongside Jordan.

So Lebron reduces his teammates' stats, which is part of the reason why he can only win with 2 stars, whereas Jordan 3-peated with just 1 star..

In addition to fostering better teamwork, Jordan also produced more personally - his first 3 rings required 30% more scoring than Lebron, with equal assists.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bosh is a 10-time all-star, so he's far better relative to his competition than Grant (1-time all-star).. Ditto for All-NBA Love, which means that Lebron CLEARLY has the superior supporting talent at the 3rd option slot.

However, your stats show that the production of Bosh and Love declined significantly alongside Lebron, while Pippen and Grant played to full capacity alongside Jordan.

So Lebron reduces his teammates' stats, which is part of the reason why he can only win with 2 stars, whereas Jordan 3-peated with just 1 star..

In addition to fostering better teamwork, Jordan also produced more personally - his first 3 rings required 30% more scoring than Lebron, with equal assists.

Jordan had an All-NBA, 2x DPOY & 7x rebounding champ as his teams 3rd best player from '96-'98

[kamil]

.
Jordan won without any all-stars in 1991, whereas Lebron has never won without at least 2 all-stars, current or former

Heck, Lebron's THIRD option was a 10-time all-star (Bosh) - that's more than any 3rd option ever..

And Love was 2nd Team All-NBA in 2014 before joining Lebron.. So Lebron's 3rd options are among the best of all time.. Lebron can only win with 2 other stars, whereas Jordan 3-peated with just 1 star.

How dare you use logic be all objective and shit!?

LeBron* fans don't like these kinds of comments.

[Screamin A Smit]

How dare you use logic be all objective and shit!?

LeBron* fans don't like these kinds of comments.

Who are you?

[3ball]

Jordan had an All-NBA, 2x DPOY & 7x rebounding champ as his teams 3rd best player from '96-'98

Rodman 97-'98 PO: 4/10/1 on 37%* ** ***
C Bosh '12-'13 PO: 13/8/1 on 47%


* was not a starter in 1998 playoffs
** did not make any all-defensive teams in 97 or 98'
*** averaged 4/8 for entire 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals

[SouBeachTalents]

Rodman 97-'98 PO: 4/10/1 on 37%* ** ***
C Bosh '12-'13 PO: 13/8/1 on 47%


* was not a starter in 1998 playoffs
** did not make any all-defensive teams in 97 or 98'
*** averaged 4/8 for entire 1997 playoffs and 1998 Finals

Those stats show that the production of Rodman declined significantly alongside Jordan

[3ball]

Those stats show that the production of Rodman declined significantly alongside Jordan

Love and Bosh were in their prime, whereas Rodman was 34-36 years old alongside Jordan

Lebron reduces the stats of guys in their PRIME, whereas Rodman declined because he was old

nice try

Those stats show that the production of Rodman declined significantly alongside Jordan

[COLOR="Darkgreen"]Lebron turns teammates into play-finishers by lowering their APG (playmaking) and increasing their assisted rate (play-finishing):[/COLOR]



[COLOR="White"]................................................[/COLOR]APG, ASSIST %[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] ASSISTED RATE

Wade [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 6.6, 34.8%[COLOR="White"]..................[/COLOR]29.2% [COLOR="DarkGreen"]<---- links to nba.com data[/COLOR]
Wade [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="white"].....[/COLOR] 4.7, 25.5%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]40.3%

Irving [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (12'-14'):[COLOR="white"]....[/COLOR] 5.8, 33.2%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]31.9%
Irving [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Lebron[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] (15'-16'):[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] 5.0, 25.6%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]32.7%

Bosh [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (04'-10'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.2, 10.5%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]55.8%
Bosh [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Lebron (11'-14'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 1.6, 8.0%[COLOR="white"] ...................[/COLOR]71.6%

Love [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (09'-14'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.5, 13.0%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]62.7%
Love [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR] [COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]Lebron (15'-16'):[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 2.3, 11.4%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]80.0%

Mo Will [COLOR="Navy"]before[/COLOR] Lebron (05'-08'):[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 5.7, 30.2%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]39.2%
Mo Will [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR]... Lebron (09'-10'):[COLOR="white"]..[/COLOR] 4.6, 22.3%[COLOR="white"]..................[/COLOR]47.6%


FYI...

Pippen [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="white"]...[/COLOR] Jordan 91'-93':[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 6.5, 24.5%
Pippen [COLOR="Navy"]w/out[/COLOR] Jordan 94'-95':[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 5.4, 23.7%
Pippen [COLOR="DarkRed"]with[/COLOR][COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] Jordan 96'-98':[COLOR="white"]......[/COLOR] 5.8, 25.1%



Unfortunately, by reducing teammates to play-finishers, Lebron promotes a sophomoric brand of basketball that can't succeed against the best playoff teams, who invariably play a superior brand of basketball.. Guys like Patty Mills and Boris Diaw are tasked with MAKING PLAYS for the Spurs - they aren't just play-finishers like Shumpert and JR Smith (who are actually more talented).

Now the question is WHY SPECIFICALLY does Lebron turn teammates into play-finishers?.. It's because he employs a point guard style from the forward position - this adds a 2nd low-assisted, high time of possession player IN ADDITION to the existing point guard, which gives teammates less opportunity to assist and less time with the ball than other teams whose forwards have normal assisted rates and time of possession.

That's the difference between 2/6 and 6/6.. MJ got the most out of his teammates - he elevated teammates so the team played to full capacity and never lost as the favorite.. Otoh, Lebron reduces teammates to play-finishers, which leads to team underperformance and losing as the favorite.
.

[Sarcastic]

Kyrie was All Star MVP before Bran ever won a title with him.

[Inferno]

Do you guys not get tired of discussing the same shit every day?

[GimmeThat]

Lebron's team lost in the finals the year before

there's probably been more heart broken team owners/GM/coach who had built a team for the finals only to never had made it there

how can teams lack such awareness?

ask the QB how they just can't score in the red zone as if they had forgotten how they had gotten there from the first place