MVPs that became second fiddle in the Playoffs

[SamuraiSWISH]

Agreed completely and 95 should of been the year Scottie played a bigger role but even out of shape Mj still outperform him. The Orlando series was close too. A better Scottie could of pushed them to the finals.

Bingo.

Luc Longely blew a dunk off MJ's gift wrapped assist to end game 6, which should've pushed the series 7. Ultimately Pippen just can't score well enough against set defenses to elevate a rusty, winded Jordan that series.

Why? Because he's a jack of all trades, master of none. As I said.

[mehyaM24]

As I said. Basketball swiss amy knife. Jack of all trades, master of none. Along with his inherent knowledge of being supplemental help to Jordan's Alpha, made their on court chemistry brilliant as a duo. And devastating for the opposition.


He wasn't. MJ's numbers across the board were better than Scottie's. All while it was supposed be MJ's niche by that point to be the primarily the team's scorer, and let Scottie take care of the miscellaneous deeds. He's never been on Jordan's level. The closest he came was for about half of the 1996 regular season. That's it.

that has more to do with ignorance - you don't know the game, my man.

saying pippen couldn't score like jordan is correct, BUT how much impact did jordan's offense have despite being "clearly better"? according to the numbers and impact, scottie had a +5.4 net impact to the bulls' success versus jordan's 5.2 .. this makes PERFECT sense because prior to his injuries, pippen was being touted as MVP, even by his jordan himself.

what we can deduce from these RAPM numbers, is pippen being just as much of an impact player (arguably more) despite the lack of volume scoring.

^^ defense, playmaking, and other various intangibles will attain these results.

[Roundball_Rock]

at blaming Pip for the 95' loss. MJ choked away Game 1 and Pippen had no help on the glass and defensively. One guy can only do so much. Once Chicago remedied these deficiencies with the best player possible for them in Rodman the rest is history.

Meyha, I think MJ>Pip but good point. MJ would usually score about 10-11 ppg more than Pippen but Pippen would outpace MJ in assists, rebounds, blocks and from 1995-1998 was clearly the superior defender.

[mehyaM24]

Meyha, I think MJ>Pip but good point. MJ would usually score about 10-11 ppg more than Pippen but Pippen would outpace MJ in assists, rebounds, blocks and from 1995-1998 was clearly the superior defender.

IMO, jordan was a more skilled offensive player, but pippen was just as impactful/more skilled defensive player (if we're talking about the 1996 season).

[mehyaM24]

IMO, jordan was a more skilled offensive player, but pippen was just as impactful/more skilled defensive player (if we're talking about the 1996 season).

and to elaborate on my point, from 1996-98, what pippen brought to the table was pure brilliance. it's called IMPACT. pippen's length and defensive prowess accounted for at least several extra possessions in a game. in the course of a seven game series, that's over 20 extra chances he gave the bulls to score, and they had the pieces to put the ball in the basket. a true difference-maker - and his RAPM (or impact) reflects that.

[mehyaM24]

at blaming Pip for the 95' loss. MJ choked away Game 1 and Pippen had no help on the glass and defensively. One guy can only do so much. Once Chicago remedied these deficiencies with the best player possible for them in Rodman the rest is history.

Meyha, I think MJ>Pip but good point. MJ would usually score about 10-11 ppg more than Pippen but Pippen would outpace MJ in assists, rebounds, blocks and from 1995-1998 was clearly the superior defender.

true. scottie never had the help in 1995 (injuries) like he did in 1994.

its unfortunate the bulls were likely a bad call and finals appearance away (they would have smashed indiana IMO) from a title without jordan. give them another allstar sg, and they likely take it all. they were THAT deep.


BELOW are some great games/clips from 96 pippen:

14 assists vs playoff hornets
22/18/10 vs. Heat (1996 playoffs - G3)
best plays from 1996 (dunks, steals, blocks, assists)

seriously GOAT intangible player

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

at blaming Pip for the 95' loss. MJ choked away Game 1 and Pippen had no help on the glass and defensively. One guy can only do so much. Once Chicago remedied these deficiencies with the best player possible for them in Rodman the rest is history.

Meyha, I think MJ>Pip but good point. MJ would usually score about 10-11 ppg more than Pippen but Pippen would outpace MJ in assists, rebounds, blocks and from 1995-1998 was clearly the superior defender.

I get that Horace Grant was injured and what-not, but really, what exactly happened to that 95 team? By all measures, Scottie was an even better player that year. Stronger, more durable, and from my POV, had better highlights ...

Who do you think Chicago could have replaced Jordan with to keep the Bulls afloat? *assuming its an elite 2 guard*

[Mr Feeny]

and to elaborate on my point, from 1996-98, what pippen brought to the table was pure brilliance. it's called IMPACT. pippen's length and defensive prowess accounted for at least several extra possessions in a game. in the course of a seven game series, that's over 20 extra chances he gave the bulls to score, and they had the pieces to put the ball in the basket. a true difference-maker - and his RAPM (or impact) reflects that.

Nah, wouldn't call that brilliant. I was actually old enough to have watched the Bulls then. If you were around back then, then you wouldn't be making a fool out of yourself here.

There's nothing resembling "pure brilliance" about someone shooting 34%fg in an NBA finals. Nor are his THREE 6-18 shooting games in the ECF against Indiana, a series in which Pippen's struggles offensively nearly cost the Bulls the series.
Phil Jackson talked about those two bricks from the line at the end of the pivotal game 4 several times. Those free throes ofcourse came after Jordan's block with 20 seconds or so remaining.

2-16 shooting in game 5 of the 98 finals.
8 points in game 6 when he was limited by his back.
This is not pure brilliance nor anywhere close to making a case for his being equal to Michael during that second run.

Those of us who were old enough to watch them then know this. Don't let me stop you. Carry on box score stalking.

[insidious301]

and to elaborate on my point, from 1996-98, what pippen brought to the table was pure brilliance. it's called IMPACT. pippen's length and defensive prowess accounted for at least several extra possessions in a game. in the course of a seven game series, that's over 20 extra chances he gave the bulls to score, and they had the pieces to put the ball in the basket. a true difference-maker - and his RAPM (or impact) reflects that.

Very good points. I'm not sure Pippen had more impact than Jordan who was the superior player, but yes, Pippen's impact was truly underrated. Too many people get caught up in the hoopla of volume scoring, but blatantly ignore the defensive end (this is where Pippen made his money). As you said, according to RAPM (not a boxscore metric), he effectively impacted games at a similar level Jordan did with the Bulls (his playmaking and lowkey scoring didn't hurt either).

I believe his 1998 finals prior to being injured is a perfect reflection of that. Many media outlets and even players/coaches had him as the runaway Finals MVP versus Utah -- his defense was THAT good!

[AirFederer]

Master of defence you should give him

Bingo.

Luc Longely blew a dunk off MJ's gift wrapped assist to end game 6, which should've pushed the series 7. Ultimately Pippen just can't score well enough against set defenses to elevate a rusty, winded Jordan that series.

Why? Because he's a jack of all trades, master of none. As I said.

[mehyaM24]

Very good points. I'm not sure Pippen had more impact than Jordan who was the superior player, but yes, Pippen's impact was truly underrated. Too many people get caught up in the hoopla of volume scoring, but blatantly ignore the defensive end (this is where Pippen made his money). As you said, according to RAPM (not a boxscore metric), he effectively impacted games at a similar level Jordan did with the Bulls (his playmaking and lowkey scoring didn't hurt either).

I believe his 1998 finals prior to being injured is a perfect reflection of that. Many media outlets and even players/coaches had him as the runaway Finals MVP versus Utah -- his defense was THAT good!

[juju151111]

at blaming Pip for the 95' loss. MJ choked away Game 1 and Pippen had no help on the glass and defensively. One guy can only do so much. Once Chicago remedied these deficiencies with the best player possible for them in Rodman the rest is history.

Meyha, I think MJ>Pip but good point. MJ would usually score about 10-11 ppg more than Pippen but Pippen would outpace MJ in assists, rebounds, blocks and from 1995-1998 was clearly the superior defender.

Mj> Pip in 95 his surpose peak years. The series was close has and Pippen playing slightly better could of swung things. Let's not pretend like the Magic blow away the bulls. It went to six and it was a close game. 96-98 Mj was the superior player and best player. My had 2 mbps from 96-98 and 3 finals mvps.