When did "modern basketball" start?

[LAZERUSS]

Officially its 1976, merger.

I have seen that used as one of the arguments, but it still doesn't change the fact that the best players before the merger, barring injury or age, tended to play almost exactly the same after it. Using KAJ as an example, in his 75-76 season he averaged 27.7 ppg on a .529 FG%. In 76-77 he averaged 26.2 ppg on a .579 FG%. Hell, in 80-81 he averaged 26.2 ppg on a .574 FG%.

Maravich went from 27.7 ppg in 75-76 to 31.1 ppg in 76-77. Bob Lanier went from 21.3 ppg on a .532 FG% in 75-76, to 25.2 ppg on a .534 in 76-77. Conversely, McAdoo, who suffered injuries, went from 31.1 ppg down to 25.8 ppg but in considerably less mpg (and again, with injuries.) The best rebounders pre-merger, would be among the best rebounders, post-merger (and Moses was just beginning to come into his prime at the time of the merger BTW.)

And keep in mind that the merger only brought in four new teams, while the other best players from the ABA went to various teams. And, the reality was, the majority of the best players from the ABA, had already jumped back to the NBA seasons before the merger.

The fact was, the game did not significantly change...at all, after the merger.

[CeltsGarlic]

Excellent question OP. Future rep

[Mr.Kite]

This weak shit modern era started in the summer of 2010. Before 2010 and from 1979, that was the golden age of basketball

Now all we have are touch fouls, crying, getting wheelchaired off the court when you injury your shoulder, no shit talking, super friends league.

I say we go back and bring in the rules of the golden age

[LAZERUSS]

I get a kick out of those that argue that today's NBA is a Global NBA, and that the previous era's were drawn from much smaller populations.

But, how do those same pundits explain that the best center in today's NBA is not even 6-10? And that two of the other "elite" centers, Drummond and Jordan, are 6-10 to 6-11, and neither have any kind of post moves, nor can either shoot from five feet away (hell, they can only make 60% of their dunks)? Or that as recently as 2004 the leading rebounding center, and DPOY, was 6-7, and he too, couldn't shoot from five feet?

How about a couple of years ago, when the apg leader was a 37 year old, 6-2, white player, and who only was playing 33 mpg (and roughly about the same size as Bob Cousy)? And the best PG in the league today is the 6-0 Chris Paul?

Or that the leading rebounder a couple of years ago, was a little over 6-8 and white? And in that same season, a 6-11 white guy led the NBA in bpg?

Year ago Pat Riley proclaimed that he could see a future with an entire team of Magic Johnsons. There hasn't been ONE since. And where are the 6-5 "Pistols" in this era? And can anyone explain to me as how a 6-8 225 lb Dennis Rodman was just slaughtering the likes of Shaq, Robinson, Hakeem, and everyone else, in rebounding, just 20 years ago?

And speaking of Shaq...where are the other Shaq's of this world? With this supposed global NBA, how come we haven't had any other 7-1, 340 lb and athletic Shaq's?

And how do the pundits explain players like the 6-5 (and white) Hondo, at age 37, still putting up 16 ppg seasons in his last season, and as recently as 77-78? And against players like Moses, Dr. J, Gilmore, Lanier, Dantley, Gervin, and Kareem?

And speaking of KAJ...he was a rookie in the NBA in 1969. How do the critics explain a peak KAJ struggling to a far greater extent against an aging Nate Thurmond, and then yet, a 39 year old KAJ was just crushing Hakeem and Ewing? Or a 34-35 year old Gilmore, and over the course of ten straight H2H's, averaging 24 ppg on an unfathomable .677 FG% against Hakeem? Or a 33 year old Moses, and way past his peak, and as late as his 88-89 season, outrebounding (and outscoring) Hakeem, who would lead the NBA in rpg that season? All three of those guys (KAJ, Gilmore, and Moses) were playing in the 70's.

Or a 36 year old Magic, and out of the league for four years, overweight, and fighting AIDs, and in less than 30 mpg, averaging a 14-6-7 against players who were playing well in the 00's? Or a 38-39 year old MJ, and obviously just a shell, putting up 40 point games, and 20 ppg seasons?

Durant? Yes, a one-of-a-lind (although McAdoo was VERY similar, and playing in the 70's.) Dirk? One of a kind. KG? One of a kind. Lebron? One-of-a-kind. But then again, so were KAJ, Maravich, and Wilt years ago. Every era has their "one-of-a-kind's."

Could Russell play today? You mean the same Russell who was 6-10, and a world-class athlete and high-jumper, and with a 7-4 wingspan? How about Thurmond? 6-11 and probably 245, with a standing reach higher than Wilt's? KAJ? The same KAJ who would be listed at over 7-3, and who was routinely hanging 40+ point games on Hakeem in the mid-to-late 80's? Chamberlain? The Wilt who would measure 7-3 in today's NBA, and with a 7-8 wingspan, 280-310 lbs, a college high-jump champion and sprinter on his KU track team, and probably considerably stronger than a peak Shaq?

I would love to see these "ESPN experts" explain all of the above.

[WillC]

There are basically three important eras in professional basketball:

1) Pre-shot clock (pre-1954)
2) Post-shock clock (1954+)
3) Three point era (1979+)

In terms of what you see today in NBA games, it wouldn't work so well prior to 1979 since the three point shot didn't exist - taking shots from 23 feet was, for the most part, nonsensical. Instead, the mid-range game was extremely valuable.

So I'd say the 'modern era' (i.e. the style you see in NBA games today) has occurred since 1979, although clearly it's progressed since then with rule changes such as no hand-checking, palming of the ball, etc.

[LAZERUSS]

There are basically three important eras in professional basketball:

1) Pre-shot clock (pre-1954)
2) Post-shock clock (1954+)
3) Three point era (1979+)

In terms of what you see today in NBA games, it wouldn't work so well prior to 1979 since the three point shot didn't exist - taking shots from 23 feet was, for the most part, nonsensical. Instead, the mid-range game was extremely valuable.

So I'd say the 'modern era' (i.e. the style you see in NBA games today) has occurred since 1979, although clearly it's progressed since then with rule changes such as no hand-checking, palming of the ball, etc.

Good point, but once again, it doesn't explain the fact that the best players of the early 80's, in MVPs, scoring, rebounding, FG%, etc, were all players from the 70's. The game may have changed, but the great players of the pre-79 era were just as dominant in their post-79 seasons.

[WillC]

Good point, but once again, it doesn't explain the fact that the best players of the early 80's, in MVPs, scoring, rebounding, FG%, etc, were all players from the 70's. The game may have changed, but the great players of the pre-79 era were just as dominant in their post-79 seasons.

Absolutely. The best players adapt to the rules. Jordan would be a stud in any era. So would (indeed, was) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The list goes on.

I'm just saying, in terms of style and aesthetics, the modern game has looked largely the same since 1979 when the three point line was introduced to the NBA. Having said that, it took many teams a number of years before they started exploiting it.

Indeed, if you compare the 1999 San Antonio Spurs championship team with the 2013 Spurs runners-up, there is a huge difference in three point shooting.

So you could argue that the modern game is more recent, maybe post 2003.

[kentatm]

You'll hear:

54 (shot clock)
76 (merger)
79 (Magic/Bird)
84 (Jordan)
92 (Dream Team)
98 (post-Jordan)
01 (zone defense)

Some make more sense than others, obviously.

At the moment I'm thinking it was some time in the early/mid 60s (when the league was thoroughly integrated, and the league coping with the shock factor from Russell coming into the league and changing how defense was played). No clue though TBH, I guess it would be subjective.

don't forget things like the 3 point line, hand checking being outlawed, and basketball becoming an international game

[LAZERUSS]

Absolutely. The best players adapt to the rules. Jordan would be a stud in any era. So would (indeed, was) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. The list goes on.

I'm just saying, in terms of style and aesthetics, the modern game has looked largely the same since 1979 when the three point line was introduced to the NBA. Having said that, it took many teams a number of years before they started exploiting it.

Indeed, if you compare the 1999 San Antonio Spurs championship team with the 2013 Spurs runners-up, there is a huge difference in three point shooting.

So you could argue that the modern game is more recent, maybe post 2003.

You're a big fan of Oscar. And we both agree that he would be a great player today...probably at the very minimum, a 25-7-7 guy. In other words, a Lebron-type player (who, is also another "one-of-a-kind" player.)

[gts]

I think the groundwork was laid in the late 60's

I suppose you have to define the "modern game" to have the answer

[TheMarkMadsen]

96

[LAZERUSS]

96

The Kobe era?

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Kobe era?

[WillC]

You're a big fan of Oscar. And we both agree that he would be a great player today...probably at the very minimum, a 25-7-7 guy. In other words, a Lebron-type player (who, is also another "one-of-a-kind" player.)

Perhaps Oscar's greatest asset was his ability to post-up opposing guards and hit the turnaround jump shot.

That skill would still be effective today. He was a truly great shooter.

I think he could adapt his shot to three point range, which would make him even more effective. He wasn't explosive - not like a Westbrook or Rose - but neither is Stephen Curry. So that wouldn't hold him back; he'd still be a great scorer in today's game.

Having said that, despite their all around statistics, I don't see much similarity between Oscar Robertson and LeBron James.

[LAZERUSS]

Perhaps Oscar's greatest asset was his ability to post-up opposing guards and hit the turnaround jump shot.

That skill would still be effective today. He was a truly great shooter.

I think he could adapt his shot to three point range, which would make him even more effective. He wasn't explosive - not like a Westbrook or Rose - but neither is Stephen Curry. So that wouldn't hold him back; he'd still be a great scorer in today's game.

Having said that, despite their all around statistics, I don't see much similarity between Oscar Robertson and LeBron James.

I didn't mean to infer that, either. Just that his numbers, including FG%, would be Lebron-like in today's NBA.