Why does Duncan get a pass for winning bronze in his prime?

[kennethgriffin]

A metric that uses all star appearances....great for the "hall" terrible for a top anything list, lol.

to be fair.. kobes only not deserved 2 appearances while losing out on 1 due to a lock out


so 1 extra allstar game would probably contribute 0.00001 towards his overall score


thus making your point obsolete

[DMAVS41]

That team kind of sucks tbh...even moreso when you think about the international game.

team doesn't have one shooter and the perimeter defense is pretty bad outside of Marion.

[FKAri]

No Pop, no Ws

And additionally to winning bronze him and his team got battered by Timmys own teammate in Manu who carried his team to Gold. Which is honestly one of the more impressive feats in basketball

Manu game winner:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aepOa9iVFb4

[dhsilv]

to be fair.. kobes only not deserved 2 appearances while losing out on 1 due to a lock out


so 1 extra allstar game would probably contribute 0.00001 towards his overall score


thus making your point obsolete

well drop those two and compare him to duncan? The math is pretty easy, I"ve run it a few times just to see the ending decimals. Where do they finish after the adjustment?

The point really is that they favor the wrong things for a real discussion. If you were to do a model for best player, I'd think you'd use VOPR or BPM along with all nba and titles and then MPV's. Everything else seems a bit weak. Oh PER too. I hate just using one advanced metric, you need a second to kinda "balance it". Now how the formula would work is beyond me, but those are the metrics that seem to match perception at the top or are more so there.

VORP sucks due to only going to 74 so we'd need WS to do all time, but you again get the point.

[warriorfan]

He was busy having sex with dudes to care about gold

[dhsilv]

That team kind of sucks tbh...even moreso when you think about the international game.

team doesn't have one shooter and the perimeter defense is pretty bad outside of Marion.

Just so I put it out there before I gush over Duncan later. He really did SUCK for team USA in his own right. He couldn't avoid fouls and just didn't do well. The international rules were an issue for him or the refs hate him (and I don't buy that one).

[dhsilv]

Why the face? This board is about the most pro man on man sex board on the internet. I was clicked on a gay porno video link and saw the messages. They were 1000x straighter than comments here about the top tier players. I mean I get ish is mostly a gay community but still....this board is gay even by that standard.

[stalkerforlife]

He didn't have a SINGLE BLOCK in 8 games.

[DMAVS41]

Just so I put it out there before I gush over Duncan later. He really did SUCK for team USA in his own right. He couldn't avoid fouls and just didn't do well. The international rules were an issue for him or the refs hate him (and I don't buy that one).

True...he really struggled with the international rules, but regardless, that is a horribly constructed team in a vacuum...especially for Olympic play.

[kennethgriffin]

well drop those two and compare him to duncan? The math is pretty easy, I"ve run it a few times just to see the ending decimals. Where do they finish after the adjustment?

The point really is that they favor the wrong things for a real discussion. If you were to do a model for best player, I'd think you'd use VOPR or BPM along with all nba and titles and then MPV's. Everything else seems a bit weak. Oh PER too. I hate just using one advanced metric, you need a second to kinda "balance it". Now how the formula would work is beyond me, but those are the metrics that seem to match perception at the top or are more so there.

VORP sucks due to only going to 74 so we'd need WS to do all time, but you again get the point.

duncan didnt deserve his allstar selection last year though

13/9 is a crap average

he got it on his rep and team record due to being overly stacked from everyones pay cuts

so duncan has 14 legit appearences. kobe has 15 ( 17 overall )

[DMAVS41]

well drop those two and compare him to duncan? The math is pretty easy, I"ve run it a few times just to see the ending decimals. Where do they finish after the adjustment?

The point really is that they favor the wrong things for a real discussion. If you were to do a model for best player, I'd think you'd use VOPR or BPM along with all nba and titles and then MPV's. Everything else seems a bit weak. Oh PER too. I hate just using one advanced metric, you need a second to kinda "balance it". Now how the formula would work is beyond me, but those are the metrics that seem to match perception at the top or are more so there.

VORP sucks due to only going to 74 so we'd need WS to do all time, but you again get the point.

That box score stuff is never going to capture the impact of many players though. And BPM is a derivative of box score metrics...it's not useless or anything, but it is going to favor certain styles of players over others.

Honestly, I'd use PER and RAPM over BPM...

Regardless...none of it is meant to tell you who the better player really was/is. At most they are really designed to be guideposts for destroying non sensical claims.

And even with the best metrics...you still have to compare like with like as much as possible. Comparing players that don't play similar roles at all on most of these metrics is really a waste of time.

Depends on the claim, but if it's a reasonable claim...I don't see this stuff as cementing much.

[dhsilv]

duncan didnt deserve his allstar selection last year though

13/9 is a crap average

he got it on his rep and team record due to being overly stacked from everyones pay cuts

so duncan has 14 legit appearences. kobe has 15 ( 17 overall )

incorrect. his all star was worthy. maybe learn basketball stats? I"m not sure what's wrong with you. Thought that profile pic implies you don't know about tooth brushing. That's an issue you should address first.

[dhsilv]

That box score stuff is never going to capture the impact of many players though. And BPM is a derivative of box score metrics...it's not useless or anything, but it is going to favor certain styles of players over others.

Honestly, I'd use PER and RAPM over BPM...

Regardless...none of it is meant to tell you who the better player really was/is. At most they are really designed to be guideposts for destroying non sensical claims.

And even with the best metrics...you still have to compare like with like as much as possible. Comparing players that don't play similar roles at all on most of these metrics is really a waste of time.

Depends on the claim, but if it's a reasonable claim...I don't see this stuff as cementing much.

I feel BPM captures defense in ways PER can't (well given) but given it is from a regression from RAPM which is so NEW we can't use it for any meaningful analysis but on NEW players, it's again the best we have for historical information.

Given we're talking hall of fame and a single metric...I think I"m advocating a better method than what is used now. I"m not saying it's perfect or remotely close.

[inclinerator]

dont u know it's not ok to criticize gays

[Mr. Jabbar]

Tim only takes credit when his team wins, not the other way around. He is better than Lebron though (big deal) and inferior to kobe (water is wet)