Why did the SG position seemingly die?

[Cocaine80s]

Harden
Derozan
Lance

[Hoopz2332]

Early this century you had Kobe, AI, Allen, TMac, Carter, Redd and depending on how you label him, Pierce.

T-mac and Pierce aren't 2 guards

[EnoughSaid]

Isn't it crazy how 2 of the top 3 shooting guards of all time are almost done in the NBA? We don't really realize how lucky we've been to have witnessed Wade and Kobe in their primes. After they leave, I don't know. There is no up and coming star at the SG position. Derozan? Beal?

[GODbe]

Because

[bizil]

The point guard rise is to blame. Some of these guys are 2's masquerading as 1's.

That's the point I make with people. AI showed that a small SG could dominate while still getting 7 dimes a night. And still play some PG. But AI's primary position became SG. Guys like Parker, Westbrook, Rose, Curry, Dragic, etc. all see the game in a SG or combo guard kind of feel. Sure they can easily run PG and do it awesome. But many SG's historically like MJ, West, Kobe, Wade, and T-Mac could play PG just as good or better than them. So as u stated, the decline of the SG has to do with many of them moving to PG. But it also has to do with durability or injury issues to guys like T-Mac, Wade, Ginobli, and even Kobe as of late. Positions go through cycles and the SG spot is going through one of its worst in many years. I gotta give props to the PF position, which has been strong with depth for over 10 years!

[JUDGE WITNESS]

Cousins, Noah, Gasol, Dwight, Jefferson, Jordan, Horford, Drummond, Lopez, Bogut, Val, Pek, Gortat, Varejao, Vucevic, Splitter, other Lopez. I would say those are all solid+ starting caliber players in the NBA.

when im talking about centers im talking about the prototypical center that operates almost exclusively in the paint. to be a beast down low you need footwork because you cant just shove a defender off you without being called for an offensive foul. drop steps, pump faking, spin moves, you need to create space to get a shot off. aka you need post moves.

the lopez bros, cousins, gasol, jefferson, bogut and gortat are the only ones there with any semblance of a post repertoire. everybody else eats off easy shots created for them or suck d1ck in the post and either try to overpower their man or they end up getting off difficult, low percentage shots.

howard is a special case because he was an absolute freak of nature and was strong as fck. freakishly strong. prior to his back injury he would routinely have 2 and 3 defenders draped all over him because one on one, he was going to power his way to the rack and nobody could stop him once he got a little bit of space.

nobody other than howard and cousins are star potential. not even close. but now we have a player like embiid who barring injury is pretty much guaranteed star power in a couple years. especially playing with philly guards.

and again even though durant, melo, gay, johnson, pierce, iguodala, barnes, turner are labeled as "small forwards" they are interchangeable and mold to their team needs. the tallest perimeter player on a team will be played at the 3. a shooting guard won the mvp this year. when was the last time a center won a mvp?

[9512]

Is there any reason? Is the talent just really low or are there other factors? Some say the PG position is so deep because of the rule change, but wouldn't the same thing make the SG position deep and riddled with superstar talent? The only all-NBA level SG in the league is Harden. Why is this?

I remember reading this somewhere (forgot where though) that generally the shooting guard position is one of the least impactful position there is basketball. As evidenced by the drafting of akeem/Hakeem and Sam bowie before MJ, GMs value big centers as the cornerstone of their franchises. A little known fact about Jordan is that some doubted his potential impact (or lack thereof) due to his position.

"Shooting guards are not franchise players" was what was said in drafting rooms though not as much publicly.

Another quote I remember was bobby knight who coached Jordan during the 1984 Olympics. He told some1 (forgot who. it may have been a rockets or blazers FO guy) to draft Michael Jordan. The guy replied, "but we need a center." Knight replied, "fine play him at center."

I think shooting guard is the most overlooked position in basketball because it doesn't allow a player to handle the ball like a PG. It doesn't allow a player to post up as much as a 3-5 player. People will marvel at a" do it all" small forward like oscar Robertson, pippen, or lebron. People will marvel at big men like shaq (power), Hakeem (supreme footwork), or David Robinson (athleticism).

Heck you can even look at the name itself: "shooting" guard. Semantically out of all 5 positions, it is the only position that has a skill attached to its name. PGs are not named "dribbling guard" or "passing guard". Centers are not called "rebounding center" just "centers." Etc...

"Shooting guard" how boring right? Wow...a guard and...and...and he/she shoots... And that's it.

Heck they should eradicate this position from basketball altogether. Make the game 4 on 4. Especially in the NBA where players are so big and the court feels very congested due to big players.

[bballnoob1192]

no one wants to be like Kobe.

no matter how much you hate kobe how can you say no player watns to be a 5 time champion, mvp, FMVP, 10+allnba/all D, perennial allstar, scoring champ, 30k+ points, etc. Yea I'm sure no one wants that career or his offensive skillset and defensive capabilities...........

[Smoke117]

the PG position didn't evolve. The rules have just been changed so guards and smaller players in general can score easier so a lot of small guards are going the scoring route instead of the facilitator route. Also the OP has says the SG position has died, but it's easy to say that after a particularly heavy period of talented SG's that came in the late 90s...the late 80s to 90s wasn't exactly full of great SG's...I mean Reggie Miller is probably the best 2nd best SG of the 90s and there at least a half dozen sg's that came in the era right after that 90s era that are better than him. Talent comes and goes from all positions and that's always how it will be.

[DirkNowitzki41]

SG dead?

[To4]

Mostly the SG position is getting shorter... ala 6'2 - 6'4. thats like PG height the years past..

[oarabbus]

The point guard rise is to blame. Some of these guys are 2's masquerading as 1's.

This is a factor. In addition, the league becoming small has created the highest level of talent at the SF position. Batum, Butler, Iggy, Hayward, PG, Granger are all guys who spend time at the 3 in small lineups, but could have been SGs in a different era.

Now there are two guard lineups which has sort of done away with a dedicated SG spot.

Oh yeah, also Tony Allen is getting mad disrespected in this thread. You can make the argument he's almost as impactful for a team than any of the usually ranked top SGs. He's a generational defender.

[no pun intended]

Because Kobe is dying.

[GimmeThat]

because many SG don't try and post up Dwayne Wade.

so we are generally left with players who can somewhat dribble drive efficiently in the half court.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Because

Dude he hasn't been the same IMO since 2010. That game winner over Wade that year is still my favorite shot of all time . Tried it at the gym the next day and hit a girl in the face who was texting on the benches near by