TOP 10 has begun on ESPN.com - #8 will make a lot of noise

[greensborohill]

[dynasty1978]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Fvcking TRUTH!!! Stupid azz mofo!!!

Love that quote by Adande, followed by these gems fromcMark Haubner, TrueHoop Network:
"Just right. I guess. Maybe No. 1 is better left as "Vacant" for now."

[Inactive]

LeBron mentally checked out. He shot a good % (48%) but was crushed by the moment. That's not a bad series, that's being mentally weak, that's a character flaw, that's a part of the player he is and has proven to be for a few playoffs now.

He had a bad series, regardless of the reason. He played significantly worse than he typically plays. He wasn't the best player in that series, but he was probably the best player in the league for the other 97 games in 2011 collectively.

As far as your other point goes, the lack of Synergy is on them as individual players. For two guys that always have the mantra "makes their teamates better" (go look it up, it's true, they always say this about those two) attached to them, why couldn't they create synergy for the other players? Those two are not as good as advertised.

An individual can't create synergy, it's something that exists within the group. If you have a great perimeter scorer, who can get a decent shot at any time, is it helpful to pair him with 4 more scorers? NO! Even if the four other scorers were allstars, you'd be better off giving him average roleplayers, and one good defensive/rebounding bigman.

[greensborohill]

You guys are getting hung up on the wrong thing when talking Miami vs Dallas. The difference WASN'T Dirk alone. It was the fact that as a TEAM defensively they overwhelmed Miami's star players, neither of which were guarded by Dirk. If Kidd, Marion, Stephenson don't play excellent defense in that series, Mavs get swept probably. That doesn't even factor in Barea's and Terry's massive bench contributions. Or Chandler's excellent interior defense.

People accusing me of revisionist history need to take a look in the mirror. YES Dirk was the star. YES Dirk was the best player of the playoffs. NO he didn't "carry" that team. They all pitched in a huge way last postseason. The playoffs are a very small sampling size to use compared to 82 regular season games when talking about individual talent. Dirk wasn't considered a top 5 player by anyone going into the playoffs and he shouldn't be now.

You mad, G?

[greensborohill]

He had a bad series, regardless of the reason. He played significantly worse than he typically plays. He wasn't the best player in that series, but he was probably the best player in the league for the other 97 games in 2011 collectively.

An individual can't create synergy, it's something that exists within the group. If you have a great perimeter scorer, who can get a decent shot at any time, is it helpful to pair him with 4 more scorers? NO! Even if the four other scorers were allstars, you'd be better off giving him average roleplayers, and one good defensive/rebounding bigman.

You mad, G?

I told you, he didn't have a bad series, other than the fact the his azzhole tightened up when sh!t go real. That's on him. That's not the first time he did it, won't be the last. That should seriously discount his worth as a player b/c he can't be trusted in big moments.

[Clippersfan86]

You mad, G?

Haha you're the one telling everyone to shut up and nerd raging bro.

[greensborohill]

Haha you're the one telling everyone to shut up and nerd raging bro.

I'm sly like a muhfvcka dog!! You don't see me losing my cool!

EDIT: FYI, I only act like a thug online. No hard feelings.

[Inactive]

You mad, G?

lol, what did I say, to imply that I was mad?

I told you, he didn't have a bad series, other than the fact the his azzhole tightened up when sh!t go real. That's on him. That's not the first time he did it, won't be the last. That should seriously discount his worth as a player b/c he can't be trusted in big moments.

"Regardless of the reason". When looking at individual skill, don't you think it's more meaningful to look at our entire 103 game sample, rather than isolating 6 of them? Obviously, his performance in the finals is going to impact his legacy, but it's not very important if you're listing the best players throughout the entire season, or going into next season.

[greensborohill]

lol, what did I say, to imply that I was mad?

"Regardless of the reason". When looking at individual skill, don't you think it's more meaningful to look at our entire 103 game sample, rather than isolating 6 of them? Obviously, his performance in the finals is going to impact his legacy, but it's not very important if you're listing the best players throughout the entire season, or going into next season.

It's not just 6 though. It's his final series as a Cav, and his performance in the Olympics. It's def. a patern at this point. I'm not saying to knock him down to a 6 from a 10. But a 9.5 or a 9 from a 10 needs to be considered b/c I can see "freak-out" moments like this happening to him again.

At this point, now that we've seen a history of it, it has to be considered a part of who he is: Great athlete, great driver, great passer, good rebounder, great at playing passing lanes, great weakside shot blocker, will check out at big moments.

[chazzy]

The playoffs are a very small sampling size to use compared to 82 regular season games when talking about individual talent. Dirk wasn't considered a top 5 player by anyone going into the playoffs and he shouldn't be now.

Here is the difference. I think we need to take a step back and remind ourselves what these guys are playing for - sure Lebron has the talent and capability of playing like the best player in the world, but the fact is that Dirk outplayed him in the finals and the playoffs overall. That shouldn't be dismissed as a small sample size because those small sample of games directly lead to winning a championship, the ultimate goal. And when you play better than anyone else for the most important stretch of the year, you put yourself in that conversation of best player IMO. Especially when the supposed best player crumbled as badly as he did.

[DMAVS41]

It's not just 6 though. It's his final series as a Cav, and his performance in the Olympics. It's def. a patern at this point. I'm not saying to knock him down to a 6 from a 10. But a 9.5 or a 9 from a 10 needs to be considered b/c I can see "freak-out" moments like this happening to him again.

At this point, now that we've seen a history of it, it has to be considered a part of who he is: Great athlete, great driver, great passer, good rebounder, great at playing passing lanes, great weakside shot blocker, will check out at big moments.

yep. he has to prove those things are a fluke. every great player has had moments like that, but Lebron has had a few already in his career...in which his individual play was simply not good enough to allow his team to win.

07 finals
first few games of the 08 boston series
10 boston series
11 finals

That is 4 years....with the only exception being the 09 run where he was historically great. That is "a history" of let downs. I'd give him a pass for some of them, but the last 2 years make me question whether or not he's capable of doing what it takes all the way through.

and the best player in the game shouldn't be a guy you have serious questions about his ability to a team a championship...especially when that team happens to be about as stacked/loaded as any team in the league.

[DMAVS41]

Here is the difference. I think we need to take a step back and remind ourselves what these guys are playing for - sure Lebron has the talent and capability of playing like the best player in the world, but the fact is that Dirk outplayed him in the finals and the playoffs overall. That shouldn't be dismissed as a small sample size because those small sample of games directly lead to winning a championship, the ultimate goal. And when you play better than anyone else for the most important stretch of the year, you put yourself in that conversation of best player IMO. Especially when the supposed best player crumbled as badly as he did.

Good points. I'd also like to add how many meaningless regular season games there are. First off...there are 82. So many. Second, there are so many bad teams that simply can't compete with a team as talented as the Heat night in night out. And also, so many teams don't show up in the regular season and quite frankly there are a lot of free wins.

So I'm just not all the impressed by what any player does in the regular season unless its something just historic. Like Lebron's individual and team play in 09/10.

The playoffs are what matters in the NBA. The pressure. The grind. Teams showing up every night. No free wins. Nothing easy...etc. Who cares what players do when they play the twolves or nets and all the other bad teams?

I want to see what these guys do in the playoffs. And the simple fact is that Lebron has pretty much never played well enough for his team to win a title (other than 09). We can make excuses, but this year really does call into question a lot of things in the past. 10 doesn't look like a fluke anymore...etc.

If you can't win a title with the supposed best player in the game as your best player on a stacked team because he can't play well enough.... he simply isn't the best player.

Not until he proves otherwise at least.

[pegasus]

Here is the difference. I think we need to take a step back and remind ourselves what these guys are playing for - sure Lebron has the talent and capability of playing like the best player in the world, but the fact is that Dirk outplayed him in the finals and the playoffs overall. That shouldn't be dismissed as a small sample size because those small sample of games directly lead to winning a championship, the ultimate goal. And when you play better than anyone else for the most important stretch of the year, you put yourself in that conversation of best player IMO. Especially when the supposed best player crumbled as badly as he did.

Agreed. No matter how fast you run in the beginning of a marathon, if you collapse (choke in his case) in the final mile, year after year, you are not the best. Plain and simple.

[D-Wade316]

i told you.... so much goes for PER/STATS when Dirk & Lebron were the ones who CLOSED the games & series out the best..........

Then you are being hypocritical. You always bring up useless RS stats like Lebron's PER being the highest in the league, but dismiss Lebron's PER in the PS, where he ranked 6th in the playoffs, just because he choked on the Finals and played great in the ECF and semifinals?

Lebron was leading in PER (amongst the active players) just before the Finals.... he had 3 horrible games which dropped his averages down dramatically.....

CP3 was. Wade had lead James, in PER, after the Boston series. Wade lost that lead after against the Bulls.

but just like i said, STATS doesnt matter at all if you cant CLOSE THE GAMES/SERIES OUT.............. which neither Lebron nor Wade was able to do in the Finals.............

.
So Wade's PS> Lebron's PS?

even if you go by stats... look at Wades PER/STATS in Bulls series which was the "reason" to them being in the Finals first of all..........

You said that stats don't matter if they can't close games out. You must also apply that to Wade who played excellent defense and close the games out like Lebron.

if it wasnt for Lebron going insane in the Bulls series... Wade would not be in the Finals...

But would Lebron have had a chance to "close" the games out if Wade didn't went nuts against the Celtics?

i dont know when u became a Lebron hater all of the sudden... but ok...

Go see my list.