Gobert is the best center in the NBA now

[Xiao Yao You]

I mean this is abit much. Rebounding will never not to be important. No matter how much the league changes defensively/rules wise. Despite taking waaaay more 3's than they did in the 90's the league gives up less offensive rebounds today than they did back than. Last year there was an average of 10.3 offensive rebounds vs 12.6-14 in the 90's. I think like alot of things the mindset has changed. I'd say less/worse rebound specialists and more of a team approach.

One could also argue that the NBA gears everything towards perimeter players in this era so pretty much every big is at a disadvantage. Someone like Gobert wouldn't have been penalized for not being able to space the floor. Houston for example like most teams make bigs constantly switch on defense. Even going back to like 2000-2007 some coaches preferred not to switch. I remember Nene occasionally getting switched onto Steve Nash in some sets and it being wild to watch. In 2019 it's going to happen multiple times a game. Teams come into the game with the mindset of running whatever is needed to make that happen. Houston did it to Gobert in the playoffs which limited is minutes, that doesn't happen in 1992. Gobert not having to worry about switching onto perimeter players, or having to run out to the 3 point line .. would be much better defensively like every single big in the league.

Not to mention the lack of physical play hurts big men the most outside of some of the more undersized/finesse players. Someone like Kevin Love or Chris Bosh? Yeah there better suited for today's game. Gobert? Much better suited to be able to play physical.

Big guys that can push Rudy around are his toughest matchups actually

[Kblaze8855]

I mean this is abit much. Rebounding will never not to be important. No matter how much the league changes defensively/rules wise. Despite taking waaaay more 3's than they did in the 90's the league gives up less offensive rebounds today than they did back than. Last year there was an average of 10.3 offensive rebounds vs 12.6-14 in the 90's. I think like alot of things the mindset has changed. I'd say less/worse rebound specialists and more of a team approach.

One could also argue that the NBA gears everything towards perimeter players in this era so pretty much every big is at a disadvantage. Someone like Gobert wouldn't have been penalized for not being able to space the floor. Houston for example like most teams make bigs constantly switch on defense. Even going back to like 2000-2007 some coaches preferred not to switch. I remember Nene occasionally getting switched onto Steve Nash in some sets and it being wild to watch. In 2019 it's going to happen multiple times a game. Teams come into the game with the mindset of running whatever is needed to make that happen. Houston did it to Gobert in the playoffs which limited is minutes, that doesn't happen in 1992. Gobert not having to worry about switching onto perimeter players, or having to run out to the 3 point line .. would be much better defensively like every single big in the league.

Not to mention the lack of physical play hurts big men the most outside of some of the more undersized/finesse players. Someone like Kevin Love or Chris Bosh? Yeah there better suited for today's game. Gobert? Much better suited to be able to play physical.

Of course the league is geared toward the perimeter which is why it

[Kblaze8855]

Eaton is considered a great defender too. You going to tell me that stiff was better too?

If all it takes to be defensive player of the year and block six shots a game is being 7’4” more than three people on this forum might know who priest Lauderdale was.

That said....he would be a spot player on most teams now because nobody cares about stopping shots at the basket if you can’t switch.

Anyway....there’s teams Rudy would be a defensive liability against at times. I watched the defensive player of the year get benched for defensive reasons as one of those nugget fans was talking about earlier. He must’ve had to switch onto Chris Paul and get put in a blender 8 times one game I saw.

I don’t like the way they acquiesce to those switches instead of a guard fighting through these days but that’s another discussion.

[NuggetsFan]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Of course the league is geared toward the perimeter which is why it

[NuggetsFan]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]

I don

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]If all it takes to be defensive player of the year and block six shots a game is being 7

[Xiao Yao You]

How does that make it easier? All the rules are there to make perimeter players better. Shaq would foul out within 10 minutes if he played the same way today. You don't think there's a bunch of C's in the league that would love to play bully ball down low? I mean shit forget C's even a guy like Melo isn't allowed to beat up guys down near the hoop like he could when he was younger. You think having to space the floor is a good thing for the average big man?

I agree he wouldn't be All-NBA tho. Those guys are better players in any era, at any point in time. There are a bunch of C's who would be much better suited playing in the 90's than today's league and I think all the players your mentioning would be better in the era they played in rather than today's game. Like Jahil Okafor would be better in 1996 where as Patrick Ewing's defense would get worse having to switch onto guards all game long and having teams draw him away from the paint.

Rebounding as I pointed out hasn't got worse. Despite the insane 3 point attempts that lead to long offensive rebounds the league gives up less of them. There just aren't rebounding specialists anymore. It's more team oriented. Just like defense. In 2019 good team defense with all the spacing/ball movement/spam plays etc. is more valuable than having 1 guy who can lock players up 1 vs 1. It's not 2005. Not a ton of teams let a guy just ISO non stop.

Yep people would be targeting Shaq and Ewing in the high pick and roll today

Teams don't hit the offensive glass like they used to. They get back in transition D instead

[Kblaze8855]

How does that make it easier? All the rules are there to make perimeter players better. Shaq would foul out within 10 minutes if he played the same way today. You don't think there's a bunch of C's in the league that would love to play bully ball down low? I mean shit forget C's even a guy like Melo isn't allowed to beat up guys down near the hoop like he could when he was younger. You think having to space the floor is a good thing for the average big man?

I agree he wouldn't be All-NBA tho. Those guys are better players in any era, at any point in time. There are a bunch of C's who would be much better suited playing in the 90's than today's league and I think all the players your mentioning would be better in the era they played in rather than today's game. Like Jahil Okafor would be better in 1996 where as Patrick Ewing's defense would get worse having to switch onto guards all game long and having teams draw him away from the paint.

Rebounding as I pointed out hasn't got worse. Despite the insane 3 point attempts that lead to long offensive rebounds the league gives up less of them. There just aren't rebounding specialists anymore. It's more team oriented. Just like defense. In 2019 good team defense with all the spacing/ball movement/spam plays etc. is more valuable than having 1 guy who can lock players up 1 vs 1. It's not 2005. Not a ton of teams let a guy just ISO non stop.

How does it make it easier? When the only stars play 25 feet from the basket that

[FKAri]

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Of course the league is geared toward the perimeter which is why it

[NuggetsFan]

How does it make it easier? When the only stars play 25 feet from the basket that’s what people learn to do. Tall people are no less capable than they were 30 or 40 years ago. But tall people don’t want to be centers. Look at Manutes son. Do you ever see his workouts? He’s 7 foot two out there working on his sham God and pulling up from three.

And it’s fine. Other than if they can move their feet on defense one of the first things teams want to know is can you shoot. Even for bigs.

Teams have a lack of resources from which to select and utilize traditional big men which is why the few who can do it stand out. Nobody today knows how to defend man to man in the post. There aren’t huge numbers of great rebounders like they used to be. A tall kid isn’t spending his afternoon intentionally missing shots to see how the ball comes off the basket like Moses Malone and Dennis Rodman. A tall kid is spending his afternoon taking threes.

Bigs today have just as much talent...nowhere near the position specific coaching to become big men....because being a big man is almost a stain. A tall kid who Hass to play center is just a forward who isn’t skilled enough in the ass of mini and that’s why the toll kids who appreciate the old ways stand out.

Most of them just wouldn’t back when all tall kids wanted to be bigs.

Magic Johnson was unusual.

He’s what everyone wants to be at 6’9” now.

Nobody knows how to defend man to man in the post? Your just being hyperbolic. Back in the day non HOF/All-Star big men would get roasted inside. You honestly think NBA coaches don't teach that stuff? C's today don't struggle with man to man post defense. They struggle with ticky tack fouls inside, and switching. Jokic/Plumlee can D up inside most nights. Maybe not when it's a case of better offense beating better defense. The issue they have, like all C's do, is teams targeting them and running certain plays over an over again that make them have to switch. I've watched Malone try to scheme around it and it's just not possible right now.

Some of what your saying is true but your exaggerating alot of it. Rebounding is rebounding. It's still preached and taught. They grabbed more offensive rebounds in the 90's, teams get back in transition D nowadays, and defensive rebounding is prioritized. Get the ball and go. Which is why last year the average amount of offensive rebounds was like 10 vs 12-14 in the 90's. It's just team oriented.

Kenneth Faried can't switch on defense, or shoot. He's an absolute BEAST on the boards. Undersized but very athletic, non stop motor, and just goes after it. He can't get on the court because in 2019 the responsibility is more spread out. It's positionless basketball. Versatility. Spacing. So he loses his spot because rebounding specialists just aren't as valuable today. Teams aren't "bad" at rebounding.

[Kblaze8855]

I’ll get around to responding to that but right now I’m just laughing at how the speech to text butchered some of my last post. I suppose I shouldn’t be trying to post while driving and eating Popeyes.

[NugzFan]

I don't consider making an all-star team over someone more deserving an achievement. Gobert should have made it last year and two years before that

Haha what?

So almost making it is more impressive than almost?

I don

[NugzFan]

Gobert sat because Favors was going good. He has no problem switching.

How many teams won 50 with no all-stars other than the Jazz?

Gobert is the best defender. In a select class of guys that won DPOTY 2 years in a row. The best finisher in the game. You do know that the dunk is still the most efficient shot in the game and Rudy set a new record for dunks? You do know he's the best at setting screens in the whole league? That is the Jazz offense just as running the offense through Jokic is Denver's. He's better at running the floor. He's more athletic. He won the head to head matchup clearly too.

Denver had a better team around Jokic. Gobert has taken a lottery team places.

Jokic took a lottery team places as well. Not sure I follow that logic

[Xiao Yao You]

[QUOTE=NugzFan]Haha what?

So almost making it is more impressive than almost?

I don

[Xiao Yao You]

Jokic took a lottery team places as well. Not sure I follow that logic

How many players teams are lottery teams without them? Not many. He's one of the best rather anyone thinks so or not. Jazz have been a horrible team without him. That may have changed now or will in the future. We'll see...