Gobert is the best center in the NBA now

[NuggetsFan]

It's all about swithchablity, man. That is what is required to be an elite defender this day and age.

Gobert and Embiid a well more equipped and able than Jokic. It's just a fact.

They are absolutely better at switching. Both can struggle with it like any big men.

Jokic has good defensive numbers, and Denver was a good defensive team. He ranges anywhere to average/above average defensively depending on the matchup.

[NuggetsFan]

I am insane then.

No doubt if you think there comparable offensively.

[Xiao Yao You]

Yeah but you can't always get a dunk which is why Gobert averaged 11 points in the playoffs this year and 12 for his career. It's why Jokic so was so successful in the playoffs. He's so versatile it's tough for teams to shut down. Denver has a better team around Jokic? I mean maybe. It's certainly debatable. Weird debate given Gobert played 24 minutes in Utah's only playoff win, and in the regular season Mitchell was there leading scorer by 8 whopping points while Jokic lead Denver in PPG/APG/RPG/SPG.

Jokic was first team All-NBA and 4th in MVP voting for a reason. Like do you actually think Gobert was as good/better than Jokic last year in the regular season/playoffs?

I never said either was better. Gobert is certainly one of the best players in the game rather anyone likes the idea or not. His only problem in the playoffs has been playing with what is otherwise a lottery team without him. That was solved in the off-season. Good luck stopping them now. No more leaving shooters wide open because they can't shoot.

[Smoke117]

I never said either was better. Gobert is certainly one of the best players in the game rather anyone likes the idea or not. His only problem in the playoffs has been playing with what is otherwise a lottery team without him. That was solved in the off-season. Good luck stopping them now. No more leaving shooters wide open because they can't shoot.

They'll win a lot of regular season games, but in the playoffs you need superstars and the Jazz don't even have one while teams in the West like the Lakers and Clippers have two. (assuming Paul George's season last year wasn't an outlier)

[Xiao Yao You]

They'll win a lot of regular season games, but in the playoffs you need superstars and the Jazz don't even have one while teams in the West like the Lakers and Clippers have two. (assuming Paul George's season last year wasn't an outlier)

Gobert is a superstar and Mitchell could be

[Smoke117]

Gobert is a superstar and Mitchell could be

Ahhahha, good one. Gobert a superstar. That's adorable.

Even if you could argue that in the regular season, it clearly doesn't carry over to the playoffs. Mitchell also has little chance of becoming a superstar this upcoming season. Maybe he should become an allstar first? At this point I'd argue that Conley is a better player. He is one of the most underrated players in the league as far as his impact on the offensive end. He was a top 10 player in that regard this past season and two years ago when he had his best season.

[AirTupac]

Gobert is a superstar and Mitchell could be

HAHAHAHHAHAHA

[NuggetsFan]

I never said either was better. Gobert is certainly one of the best players in the game rather anyone likes the idea or not. His only problem in the playoffs has been playing with what is otherwise a lottery team without him. That was solved in the off-season. Good luck stopping them now. No more leaving shooters wide open because they can't shoot.

I think Gobert impacts the game alot and is really good. I'm not debating that. Some of the things you say are just delusional tho. His only problem in the playoffs is his team? But there only win against Houston came when Gobert scored 4 points and played 24 minutes? he averaged 11 points and Utah could have absolutely used more offense/a better defense.

Utah was 10th in 3 point field goal % last season. Nuggets were 17th. Utah was 10th in 3 point makes last year. Nuggets were 18th. Those are just facts. Utah didn't shoot well in the playoffs, but neither did Denver. We made .2 more 3's and shot 34% vs 26% but we also played 9 more games so a bigger sample size.

[Xiao Yao You]

I think Gobert impacts the game alot and is really good. I'm not debating that. Some of the things you say are just delusional tho. His only problem in the playoffs is his team? But there only win against Houston came when Gobert scored 4 points and played 24 minutes? he averaged 11 points and Utah could have absolutely used more offense/a better defense.

Utah was 10th in 3 point field goal % last season. Nuggets were 17th. Utah was 10th in 3 point makes last year. Nuggets were 18th. Those are just facts. Utah didn't shoot well in the playoffs, but neither did Denver. We made .2 more 3's and shot 34% vs 26% but we also played 9 more games so a bigger sample size.

Jazz live and died by the 3. Now they have guys that will hit them consistently.

Their defense was fine in the playoffs the past two years. Their offense sucked. That was fixed

[Kblaze8855]

Incredibly biased homers telling people that what they think is true whether anyone likes it or not are always funny to me. As if you being passionate about the subject makes you correct about it. Rudy is a very good big but it

[tpols]

Incredibly biased homers telling people that what they think is true whether anyone likes it or not are always funny to me. As if you being passionate about the subject makes you correct about it. Rudy is a very good big but it’s unlikely he’s ever anything more than that. Nobody with his skill set on offense has been a truly elite player in probably 50 years. And for most of the leagues history guys like him could make more of a difference.

Guys like he and Deandre out here shooting 68-70 percent because they have so little talent not because they are good scorers. If he were somebody you could give the ball to expect something he would be used in ways that would not allow him to shoot those ridiculous percentages.

He deserves credit for being an impact player despite his shortcomings and nobody questions his defensive ability. He just isn’t anyone a rational fan puts up there with the elites.

He’s elite like Nuggets or Hawks Mutombo was elite.

Great guy to have. But not David Robinson or Patrick Ewing. Or even Zo.

He just doesn’t have enough to offer on offense beyond screens and easy dunks you can’t rely on. When the other guy can defend....and score? It’s not close anymore. You want to make up that difference you better have Bill Russell impact and nobody can have that impact these days because he was an outlier in a league that didn’t value defense yet.

Long as guys like Leonard and Embiid can shut you and/or your team down and drop 35 he’s not an elite two way player. He’s an elite defensive player in a league with other great defenders who can also score.

It’s not disregarding defense. It’s acknowledging that a lot of people can do both. He can play D and set screens. Others can play d and eliminate you from the playoffs down the stretch individually....

Gobert's defense far exceeds leonard and especially embiid's... thats an embarrassing equivalency to make.

But their gap on offense is bigger, true.

[Xiao Yao You]

Gobert's defense far exceeds leonard and especially embiid's... thats an embarrassing equivalency to make.

But their gap on offense is bigger, true.

his D exceeds Jordan or Ewing too. Better rebounder than Ewing and Mourning. Mutumbo wasn't the athlete he is

[Gougou]

Nah, he is just the best defensive center in NBA.

In overall ability, Jokic and Embiid are way better, I would even pick AD over him.

[Doranku]

He's not nearly as effective in the playoffs because he's too easy to gameplan for offensively. His defense is great, yeah, but when you're limited offensively like he is, so is your ceiling.

[Kblaze8855]

Gobert's defense far exceeds leonard and especially embiid's... thats an embarrassing equivalency to make.

But their gap on offense is bigger, true.

A healthy Leonard is as good on defense as anyone but hes not a big so his total team impact is limited and Embiid vs Rudy is like a 7 or 8 vs a 10....with the offense being a 5 or so vs a 9.

his D exceeds Jordan or Ewing too. Better rebounder than Ewing and Mourning. Mutumbo wasn't the athlete he is

Assuming you mean Deandre Jordan....of course. Ewing? Nah not really. The 90s Knicks had better defenses than the Jazz and he was a large part of the reason. Ewing was all D team over Hakeem at times. Hes remembered as a scorer but those Knick teams didnt win with offense and he was the anchor without question. His style of defense would be less required today but it is what it is. The rebounding is hard to even compare. Gobert plays in a league of soft stretch bigs with few teams even willing to play 2 traditional bigs at the same time.

Cut the pace down and put both Charles Oakley and Anthony Mason on the same floor with the likes of Hakeem and Otis Thorpe together in the lineup. Who today plays both Shaq and Horace Grant? Zo and Larry Johnson? Barkley and Hakeem? Daugherty and Larry Nance? Laimbeer and Dennis Rodman? Parish, Mchale, and Bird? Who trots out a lineup with Sabonis...and rebounding specialists like Chris Dudley and Buck Williams? Who sends out the huge lineup like the Spurs did starting 3 bigs for half a season with Duncan being the shortest of them? If the Jazz play the Spurs with Drob/Duncan/Perdue starting....3 bigs the least of which averaged 10 rebounds a game the year before....you think hes as likely to get 16 rebounds in a game as he would be today?

When Ewing has 6 rebounds vs the 76ers....who start both Moses Malone and Charles Barkley....we assuming he has 6 vs many teams today? When Ewing has 9 rebounds vs the Pistons when they get 70+ minutes out of Laimbeer and Rodman and Oakley plays 38 next to him.....is he likely to play that level of rebounding in any game today? The worst rebounder in that group led the NBA in it once....

Rebounding numbers in a league devoid of dominant bigs that wants its 4s to stretch the floor more than control the paint....compared to the 80s/90s when teams wanted multiple physical bigs?


Is gobert going to play a game in his entire career with 3 rebounders the equal of Rodman/Laimbeer/Oakley on the court the whole game? Is 27/10 for a playoff series that includes Rodman, Laimbeer, and Oakley a little harder to get than 11/10 in a series vs Capela and a 6'5'' swingman at the 4 with Favors best rebounder also on your team?

Gobert would still be a good player 20-30 years ago but hed have a much harder time being a dominant rebounder. Bigmen in 1990 were trying to put you on the floor more than stretch it.

A guy like Mutombo, Ewing, or Mourning would appear to be better rebounders today than they did at the time. And they were good to great then.

Todays 13 rebounds is not 1990s 13 as far as the rest of the NBA trying to stop you from getting them. Prime Ewing would be getting about the same 13-14 a game Embiid does if only due to fewer people to compete with for them. Some old small forward who is too fat to play on the wings so hes a stretch 4 now isnt trying to fight for a rebound like Patrick Ewing would. And Ewing never had Joe Ingles on his team either. He had Charles Oakley on his team till he was 36. Swap Joe Ingles for Charles Oakley who once had 35 rebounds in a game and see if Gobert gets the same number himself. At one point Ewing had Oakley....Buck Williams...and Chris Dudley. All of whom were there to do little but rebound and control the lane....which is exactly what Ewing was there to do....while also scoring 20-25 a night and being an elite man to man post defender.


Even when Ewing wasnt with other great rebounders(a small fraction of his career) he was in a league that wouldnt play small ball and concede the paint to whatever big you trotted out there because they know they can exploit him on switches till you either take him out or let their guards go off.

The situations arent close to the same.