shaq coulda won 3 straight if you replaced kobe with any other quality 2nd option

[kennethgriffin]

1993 - nick anderson 20ppg
1993 - dennis scott 16ppg
1993 - scott skiles 15ppg

result = missed playoffs

1994 - penny hardaway 16ppg
1994 - nick anderson 16ppg
1994 - dennis scott 13ppg
1994 - scott skiles 10ppg

result = swept first round

1995 - penny hardaway 21ppg
1995 - nick anderson 16ppg
1995 - dennis scott 13ppg
1995 - horace grant 13ppg

result = swept nba finals

1996 - penny hardaway 22ppg
1996 - dennis scott 18ppg
1996 - nick anderson 15ppg
1996 - horace grant 13ppg

result = swept third round

1997 - eddie jones 17ppg
1997 - nick van exel 15ppg
1997 - elden campbell 15ppg
1997 - cedric ceballos 11ppg

result = lost 1-4 first round

1998 - eddie jones 17ppg
1998 - kobe bryant 15ppg
1998 - nick van exel 14ppg
1998 - rick fox 12ppg
1998 - elden campbell 10ppg

result = swept first round

1999 - kobe bryant 20ppg
1999 - glen rice 18ppg
1999 - rick fox 10ppg

result = swept 2nd round

2003 - kobe bryant 30ppg ( injured in playoffs )
2003 - derek fisher 10ppg

result = lost 2-4 in 2nd round

2004 - kobe bryant 24ppg ( bad shoulder all year
2004 - payton 15ppg
2004 - malone 12ppg ( injured in finals )

result = lost 1-4 in nba finals

2005 - dwyane wade 24ppg
2005 - eddie jones 13ppg
2005 - damon jones 12ppg
2005 - udonas haslem 11ppg

result = lost 3-4 in third round


2007 - dwyane wade 27ppg
2007 - jason williams 11ppg
2007 - jason kapono 11ppg
2007 - udonas haslem 11ppg

result = swept first round

2008 - amare stoudemire 25ppg
2008 - steve nash 16ppg
2008 - shawn marion 16ppg
2008 - leandro barbosa 16ppg
2008 - grant hill 13ppg
2008 - raja bell 12ppg

result = lost 1-4 first round

2009 - amare stoudemire 21ppg
2009 - jason richardson 16ppg
2009 - steve nash 16ppg
2009 - leandro barbosa 14ppg
2009 - grant hill 12ppg
2009 - matt barnes 10ppg

result = missed playoffs

2010 - lebron james 30ppg
2010 - mo williams 16ppg
2010 - antawn jamison 16ppg

result = lost 2-4 in 2nd round

2011 - paul pierce 19ppg
2011 - ray allen 17ppg
2011 - kevin garnett 15ppg
2011 - glen davis 12ppg
2011 - rajon rondo 11ppg
2011 - jeff green 10ppg

result = lost 1-4 in 2nd round
















only wins


2000 - kobe bryant 23ppg ( becomes elite, 1st team defense, assist leader, steals leader )
2000 - glen rice 16ppg

result = NBA CHAMPIONS ( no finals without kobe game 7 wcf )

2001 - kobe bryant 29ppg ( legendary mode )
2001 - derek fisher 12ppg

result = NBA CHAMPIONS

2002 - kobe bryant 25ppg ( legendary mode )
2002 - derek fisher 11ppg

result = NBA CHAMPIONS

2006 - dwyane wade 27ppg ( became elite, legendary mode )
2006 - jason williams 12ppg
2006 - antoine walker 12ppg

result = NBA CHAMPIONS ( shaq only 13ppg in the finals though )

[ralph_i_el]

lol PPG

because that's the only thing that makes Kobe look good.

[Bankaii]

Shit thread. But I did notice something.
Kobe 2000 Finals: 16/5/4 on 37%. 20% 3p.
Fisher 2002 Finals: 13/4/4 on 52%. 67% 3p.
Fisher > Kobe. Thanks Kenneth.

[kennethgriffin]

lol PPG

because that's the only thing that makes Kobe look good.

1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2001-02 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2006-07 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2007-08 NBA MVP
2008-09 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2008-09 NBA Finals MVP
2009-10 NBA Finals MVP
2010-11 NBA All-Star Game MVP

All-Star Games
1998 NBA
2000 NBA
2001 NBA
2002 NBA
2003 NBA
2004 NBA
2005 NBA
2006 NBA
2007 NBA
2008 NBA
2009 NBA
2010 NBA
2011 NBA
2012 NBA
2013 NBA
2014 NBA
2015 NBA

Championships
2000 Los Angeles Lakers (NBA) *assist leader, *steals leader
2001 Los Angeles Lakers (NBA) *assist leader, *steals leader
2002 Los Angeles Lakers (NBA) *assist leader, *steals leader
2009 Los Angeles Lakers (NBA) *assist leader
2010 Los Angeles Lakers (NBA) *assist leader, *steals leader



- only player to win multiple titles without a legendary sidekick (Pau Gasol 85th all time HOF rating)

- only player to start or make 17 consecutive all-star games

- all time record for all NBA 1st teams (11)

- all time record for all defensive 1st teams (9)

- all time record for all star game mvps (4)

- all time best International win% (100%)

- all time most 50+ win playoff teams beatin (24)

- youngest NBA allstar (19 years)

- youngest 1st team all defense (21 years)

- youngest dunk contest champion (18 years)

- youngest nba starter (17 years)

- Sporting News Player of the decade ( 2000's )

- Dime Magazine Player of the decade ( 2000's )

- TNT Player of the decade ( 2000's )

- 2 olympic gold medals

[kennethgriffin]

Shit thread. But I did notice something.
Kobe 2000 Finals: 16/5/4 on 37%. 20% 3p.
Fisher 2002 Finals: 13/4/4 on 52%. 67% 3p.
Fisher > Kobe. Thanks Kenneth.

19ppg in the games kobe actually played more than 2 minutes



and kobe held reggie to 1 for 16 in game 1

saved game 4

and had a double double in game 6

not to mention saving the season in game 7 wcf

[kennethgriffin]

hypocrisy at its finest



"shaq can win with any kobe replacement"


"all kobe does is score"


"how can you mention only ppg"

[GIF REACTION]

Fun fact: Kobe has NEVER led the playoffs in Box Plus Minus

[GIF REACTION]

Lebron has led it 8 times and MJ has led it 6

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

To be fair, Shaq won his first title while his second option got outscored by a role player, Austin Croshere.

[kennethgriffin]

Fun fact: Kobe has NEVER led the playoffs in Box Plus Minus

1 more reason for me not to give a f*ck about advanced stats/ analytics


didnt kobe lead the lakers in win shares during the 2001 playoffs

[kennethgriffin]

To be fair, Shaq won his first title while his second option got outscored by a role player, Austin Croshere.

if michael jordan missed 2 full games during a finals he might get outscored in total points by scottie pippen. who knows

what does that prove?




fact is without kobes heroics VS the REAL finals ( best team ) portland.... shaq wouldnt have made it to the finals to beat up on the pissers lol

[GIF REACTION]

Only because he played more minutes than Shaq

Shaqs per48 win shares was slightly better

Then you factor in Shaq was the brunt of the defensive attention

It's the closest Kobe ever came to dethroning Shaq

[GIF REACTION]

Fun Fact: Pau Gasol has a higher career playoffs Box Plus Minus and Win shares per 48 minutes than Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

people seem to forget that the east has sucked forever. and the real nba finals is in the western conference


they all say ... "well shaq and any 20ppg guy can beat the pissers, philly and jersey"


except shaq with any other guy doesnt make it past portland, sanantonio or sacramento to play those weak finals matchups


sh*t.. kobe and any adequate big woulda shat all over indy, philly and jersey too


this isnt saying allot.. the east sucked

[GIF REACTION]

Fun additional Fact: Pau had a superior Win shares per 48, Box Plus Minus, and Win shares in the 2010 playoffs compared to Kobe