HYPOTHETICAL: What if Kobe had focused on playing PG?

[BigKAT]

i think you got it confused.. kobe was athletic, hell yea.. i said other worldy though. The shaqs, lebrons, wilts, jordans, kareems .. totally different plane of athleticism.. i shouldve included duncan in my post w/ Bird and Kobe too.

Well.
He's definetly not Lebron or MJ in Athletic Ability.
But he isn't that far beneath.
I don't think he's less athletic then Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan or anyone for that matter.

He's not Air Jordan but he isnt' chopped liver.
I don't think a 'Lack of jump' held him back in any point.

Furious slasher and driver throughout his career.

[tpols]

Well.
He's definetly not Lebron or MJ in Athletic Ability.
But he isn't that far beneath.
I don't think he's less athletic then Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Duncan or anyone for that matter.

He's not Air Jordan but he isnt' chopped liver.
I don't think a 'Lack of jump' held him back in any point.

Furious slasher and driver throughout his career.

In terms of physical gifts i'd rank the top 10 ...


God Tier (holy trinity of freak size and movement)

Shaq
Lebron
Wilt


Second Tier

MJ
Hakeem
Kareem
Russell


Third Tier

Magic
Kobe
Duncan
Bird

[zeerghit]

In terms of physical gifts i'd rank the top 10 ...


God Tier (holy trinity of freak size and movement)

Shaq
Lebron
Wilt


Second Tier

MJ
Hakeem
Kareem
Russell


Third Tier

Magic
Kobe
Duncan
Bird

Tier 1-3: Barkley,Robinson,Kemp,erving, nique FOR SURE
HM: Pippen,starks,amare, westbrook,howard, clyde, carterr. tmac, nate..

[zeerghit]

forgot about rodman..

[SamuraiSWISH]

i think you got it confused.. kobe was athletic, hell yea.. i said other worldy though. The shaqs, lebrons, wilts, jordans, kareems .. totally different plane of athleticism.. i shouldve included duncan in my post w/ Bird and Kobe too.

You're comparing big men to perimeter guys.

Don't act like Kobe wasn't an elite athlete. Only people clearly more blessed were MJ and Bron.

Kareem wasn't athletic ... he's just like 7'3. Big guys have it easier. Wilt was athletic. Shaq was more athletic. Robinson was more athletic than both.

Kobe as a rookie in a preseason game crossed a dude over and dunked on Ben Wallace FROM A STEP INSIDE THE FREE THROW LINE in an actual game. Kobe is more in MJ and Bron category, even if inferior, than he is Bird or Magic. Those guys were taller but WAY less athletic than Bryant.

Kobe stans attempt to make him sound pedestrian athletically to account for failure or not being universally acclaimed on the level of Jordan and LeBron as players. It's a move the goal post arguing technique.

You don't play 20 years in the best basketball league ever ... as a 6'6 guard without being super blessed athletically. Especially for a position that's 2nd smallest on the floor, with the game on the perimeter being nearly entirely speed /quickness based.

[TommyGriffin]

You're comparing big men to perimeter guys.

Don't act like Kobe wasn't an elite athlete. Only people clearly more blessed were MJ and Bron.

Kareem wasn't athletic ... he's just like 7'3. Big guys have it easier. Wilt was athletic. Shaq was more athletic. Robinson was more athletic than both.

Kobe as a rookie in a preseason game crossed a dude over and dunked on Ben Wallace FROM A STEP INSIDE THE FREE THROW LINE in an actual game. Kobe is more in MJ and Bron category, even if inferior, than he is Bird or Magic. Those guys were taller but WAY less athletic than Bryant.

Kobe stans attempt to make him sound pedestrian athletically to account for failure or not being universally acclaimed on the level of Jordan and LeBron as players. It's a move the goal post arguing technique.

You don't play 20 years in the best basketball league ever ... as a 6'6 guard without being super blessed athletically. Especially for a position that's 2nd smallest on the floor, with the game on the perimeter being nearly entirely speed /quickness based.

Nah. Kobe wasn't that athletic. You are exaggerating.

[SouBeachTalents]

12-13 assists per game

[tpols]

Kareem was the most graceful 7+ footer of all time.. a like a 7'3 gazelle. Height is a physical gift, thats just common sense. Obviously the taller and bigger you get, and the more your propensity for smooth effortless movement, the more dominant of an athlete you will be.

You don't play 20 years in the best basketball league ever ... as a 6'6 guard without being super blessed athletically.

GOAT tier conditioning and work ethic is more responsible for that than anything else. Kobe's peers at SG like Carter and tmac broke down quicker, were slightly better athletes, but didnt last long at a high level because they didnt have the same sociopathic drive to be great and keep going.. they had more motivation than any of us could muster up, surely, but Kobe level? not close. And there's mountains of evidence to support that if you paid attention.

[tpols]

Kareem wasn't athletic ...

thats a fkin doozy ... would love to hear some older guys come in here and school you on young Kareem.

[SamuraiSWISH]

I don't disagree with Kobe's motivations. But you're understating his athletic ability at the shooting guard position. This isn't floor bound, exclusive craftiness like Brandon Roy or Klay Thompson.

Kobe was elite athletically.

For a period Carter and Mac might have been slightly more athletic. MJ and Bron were the only ones definitively and staggeringly more athletic. So, stop down playing Kobe's innate gifts to prop him up higher.

Yes, he maximized what he was given. Was it MJ or Bron level gifts? No. But no one else was easily more gifted on the perimeter than Kobe.

[SamuraiSWISH]

thats a fkin doozy ... would love to hear some older guys come in here and school you on young Kareem.

Maybe it is because Kareem's lasting image in my mind was a mechanical stiff on the Lakers. You're younger than me, don't act like you were watching him in his prime. Anyway, all accounts were that Wilt, Robinson, Hakeem and even Shaq were more athletic.

[Kblaze8855]

From a skills perspective, Kobe is the GOAT along with co-GOAT Larry Bird.

The gap between Nash and Kobes physical ability was tremendous.....the difference between how effective they were on a court is not. If thats how we judge players....im not sure how Kobe is more skilled than Nash. Is he a better shooter, passer, or ball handler? Is his defensive edge one created mostly through defensive skill or physical ability? Is he a more skilled rebounder...or is he a lot bigger and more athletic?

People just started pretending Kobe wasnt a great athlete a few years ago as if he wasnt considered an amazing one for the 10-12 years that preceded it.

[Kblaze8855]

And Kareem was athletic as hell for his size. How many 7'2'' players have gone coast to coast and finished with a eurostep?

Hes not super athletic by the standards of smaller guys. But there arent more than like....4-5 people ive ever seen his size who were more athletic.

He wasnt Ralph Sampson, Wilt, Shaq, or Drob all things considered. But not being the most athletic guy of your size ever doesnt mean you arent athletic.

Kareem was more athletic by center standards than Kobe by 2 guard standards.

7'2'' guys are supposed to be Hasheem Thabeet or Roy Hibbert. Kareem could really really move.

[tpols]

The gap between Nash and Kobes physical ability was tremendous.....the difference between how effective they were on a court is not. If thats how we judge players....im not sure how Kobe is more skilled than Nash. Is he a better shooter, passer, or ball handler? Is his defensive edge one created mostly through defensive skill or physical ability? Is he a more skilled rebounder...or is he a lot bigger and more athletic?

People just started pretending Kobe wasnt a great athlete a few years ago as if he wasnt considered an amazing one for the 10-12 years that preceded it.

i never said kobe wasnt a great athlete .. i said he was on the lower rung of top 10 GOATs who not coincidentally most happen to be some of the most freak specimens of all time. The same gap that exists between nash and kobe also exists between shaq or wilt and kobe.

(nash is underrated as an athlete btw... his father and family were professional footballers so he did have elite quickness)

[Mr Feeny]

This is a mod...

He's correct in this case. Leave accolades aside. If it's about individual impact, there isn't much in it. Nash is DEFINITELY ahead of Kobe offensively based on individual impact. It's defense where Nash is so poor that he cedes the advantage.