96-98 Jordan vs 08-10 Kobe

[AlphaWolf24]

I have defended and praised Kobe for his willingness to dare aspire at being better than MJ. I have defended and praised Kobe time and time again when comparing Bron and others to him. I have given him the highest compliment any player can get when I state that he's the closest to MJ as far as 'skills set'.

But that's all Kobe is= Jordan 'lite'

He has some of MJ's skills, but not as polished and at the same level of 'consistency'. If MJ is a 9.5 in a certain skill, Kobe is an 8 (depending on what we're talking about).

But where Kobe lacks the most (and this is significant) is in the IQ department.

Lawdy is he far behind in this department.

MJ is clearly a 10, Kobe is a 5.

And this takes away from all of the other aspects in his game. MJ wasn't perfect, but he knew how to maximize his strengths while not letting his opponents exploit his weaknesses. Kobe on the other hand is the opposite. There's a huge reason why his stats aren't as impressive as MJ's (although impressive on their own right), and that's because he has never come close to MJ's overall mastery of the game.

There's an interview with MJ where he states that physically, Wade, Bron and Kobe would beat him. But when it comes to the mental aspects, it's not even close.... and he's right.

Some cats here are too young or too dumb (sorry, but it's true) to understand this very important aspect. And that's what I believe takes Kobe notches down from even being equal to MJ, let alone better.

yet with all your posturing Kobe and MJ are similir players in similiar roles with similiar averages...Kobe as a starter from ages of 21 - 31 are 28.3PPG 6REB 5AST....nearly identical to MJ....Championship caliber are nearly Identical...

I mean marginal differences aside Kobe is playing in a tougher era....and doing the same things MJ did.....by tweaking MJ's style and adding his own flavor....


I still feel Kobe has alot of basketball left...and skillwise Kobe is 2nd to No one....No One.

[game3524]

I definately would take 96-98 MJ over Bryant. I firmly believe that jordan at this stage was a complete and unstopable basketball player. He obviously wasn't quite the athlete he was in the begining of his career, but he learned how to utilize the talents of the rest of his team. Which made him much more unguardable.

Kobe still hasn't evolved to this point. It seemes to me that he was going to do it in the beginning of the season when he played within the flow of the game. And the lakers were unstopable. But once talk began that pau gasol was the early favorite for mvp, it seemed kobe took it on himslef to reassert his role on the team and thus hurt the lakers. His immaturity in this respect is what hurts his case over jordan

What is this bullshit?

08-10 Kobe has averaged less shots a game then 96-98 Jordan. Also LA lost because they can't guard a chair on the perimeter and didn't close out on the shooters, Kobe Bryant's shot selection was the least of their problems this year.

[andgar923]

1. I agree that Bron was better then Bryant in 2010, my point in using him as an example was to point out the stupidity of taking 96-98 Jordan over 2008 Bryant duo to team success.

2. Bryant was a better defender in 2008 then Jordan was in 96-98, 2008 was one of Kobe's best defensive years, in fact his best year since the 3-peat days. Jordan still had the smarts, but Bryant was the better athlete at that point which gives him the edge.

3. Jordan averaged 22 shots per a game from 96-98, Bryant averaged 20 shots per a game. Kobe could have one the scoring title in 2008 on the same amount of shots MJ took from 96-98 if he wanted to, but he dialed it back to fit in more with the team.

Jordan is the greatest player of all-time, no question about it. But some of you need to get his dick out of your mouth.

Kobe has never been better than MJ defensively.... NEVER.

Shit... Wizards MJ is as good as 'prime' Kobe defensively.

Seriously, go back and watch games. MJ would use angles and position to cut off his opponent, box out, disrupt the offensive flow of his opponents, etc.etc. Sure he'd get beat from time to time, but so does/did Kobe, and yet Kobe still made mistakes on defense. MJ didn't make mistakes on defense at this point, if he got beat it was because he was slower, not because he read or played his opponent the wrong way. I still see Kobe playing bad defense usually selecting the wrong way to play a high screen, using the wrong angles to guard somebody, pouting instead of getting back on defense, gambling even tho he doesn't have the same athleticism etc.etc.

[andgar923]

yet with all your posturing Kobe and MJ are similir players in similiar roles with similiar averages...Kobe as a starter from ages of 21 - 31 are 28.3PPG 6REB 5AST....nearly identical to MJ....Championship caliber are nearly Identical...

I mean marginal differences aside Kobe is playing in a tougher era....and doing the same things MJ did.....by tweaking MJ's style and adding his own flavor....


I still feel Kobe has alot of basketball left...and skillwise Kobe is 2nd to No one....No One.

Not really.

[PowerGlove]

Kobe has never been better than MJ defensively.... NEVER.

Shit... Wizards MJ is as good as 'prime' Kobe defensively.

Seriously, go back and watch games. MJ would use angles and position to cut off his opponent, box out, disrupt the offensive flow of his opponents, etc.etc. Sure he'd get beat from time to time, but so does/did Kobe, and yet Kobe still made mistakes on defense. MJ didn't make mistakes on defense at this point, if he got beat it was because he was slower, not because he read or played his opponent the wrong way. I still see Kobe playing bad defense usually selecting the wrong way to play a high screen, using the wrong angles to guard somebody, pouting instead of getting back on defense, gambling even tho he doesn't have the same athleticism etc.etc.

[Ikill]

yet with all your posturing Kobe and MJ are similir players in similiar roles with similiar averages...Kobe as a starter from ages of 21 - 31 are 28.3PPG 6REB 5AST....nearly identical to MJ....Championship caliber are nearly Identical...

I mean marginal differences aside Kobe is playing in a tougher era....and doing the same things MJ did.....by tweaking MJ's style and adding his own flavor....


I still feel Kobe has alot of basketball left...and skillwise Kobe is 2nd to No one....No One.

Why are you not including Kobe as a 20 year old and 32 year ol he started than too. That would bring him to 13 years the same number of years Jordan played with the Bulls. What are Jordans numbers with the Bulls and Kobes numbers from 20-32 compare those numbers.

[game3524]

You clearly don't understand basketball.

MJ isn't MJ because he was a freakish athlete. Yes, it was 'a' factor, but not THE factor. If Mj just had skills and athleticism he would've still been great, but not as great legendary as he became. MJ became legendary because he had a very high basketball IQ. He knew how to use his gifts to his advantage, he knew how to exploit his defenders, he knew how to control the game in every aspect etc.etc.

During a TNT tribute, Kenny and Magic alluded to this.

His drive, athleticism, skills, can all very well be crippled if he doesn't have the high IQ that he has. It's a very underrated aspect of one's game, but also very essential.

I can go on the court and still be very effective against younger competition even tho I'm older and haven't played the game in a decade. Because my iq on the court will allow me to do that, even tho my athleticism has faded into obscurity. Kobe till this day makes rookie mistakes, at times I just at him.

No, I understand basketball. You guys just want to turn Jordan into some mythical figure. Both Bryant and Jordan have high b-ball IQ, the difference is Jordan was a much better athlete then Bryant, which allowed him to get higher percentage shots.

[miles berg]

Kobe, at his absolute peak, was roughly 65%-75% as good as any version of Jordan from '84 to '98.

This is as silly as comparing Dirk to Bird.

[AlphaWolf24]

Not really.

yes...I watched both players whole career....Kobe skillwise is 2nd to no one.

[game3524]

Kobe has never been better than MJ defensively.... NEVER.

Shit... Wizards MJ is as good as 'prime' Kobe defensively.

Seriously, go back and watch games. MJ would use angles and position to cut off his opponent, box out, disrupt the offensive flow of his opponents, etc.etc. Sure he'd get beat from time to time, but so does/did Kobe, and yet Kobe still made mistakes on defense. MJ didn't make mistakes on defense at this point, if he got beat it was because he was slower, not because he read or played his opponent the wrong way. I still see Kobe playing bad defense usually selecting the wrong way to play a high screen, using the wrong angles to guard somebody, pouting instead of getting back on defense, gambling even tho he doesn't have the same athleticism etc.etc.

Nothin more needs to be said.

[game3524]

yes...I watched both players whole career....Kobe skillwise is 2nd to no one.

Yeah, and Phil would agree with you.

[Indian guy]

It's a close comparison, but MJ gets the edge on virtue of significantly better regular season production alone. I do think, overall, Kobe's about 90-95% the player MJ was.

[magnax1]

Kobe, at his absolute peak, was roughly 65%-75% as good as any version of Jordan from '84 to '98.

This is as silly as comparing Dirk to Bird.

Jordan wasn't the same player as 88-93 Jordan in 96-98. He wasn't nearly as good.

[game3524]

Kobe, at his absolute peak, was roughly 65%-75% as good as any version of Jordan from '84 to '98.

This is as silly as comparing Dirk to Bird.

No what is silly is people who think past his prime Jordan 96-98 was better then peak Kobe Bryant 2008.

[AlphaWolf24]

Why are you not including Kobe as a 20 year old and 32 year ol he started than too. That would bring him to 13 years the same number of years Jordan played with the Bulls. What are Jordans numbers with the Bulls and Kobes numbers from 20-32 compare those numbers.

roughly 28PPG 6REB 5AST....Kobe at 32 has 5 Championships and 1 Losing season