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  1. #1
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    Default Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Ok so this thread will try and see if statistics is a better indicator of ranking the GOATs. The stat is Player Efficiency Rating, a stat which gauges true player skill and contribution to winning.

    Generally the higher the career PER, the more impactful the player was to helping his team win, ie. the BETTER the player he was

    On ISH, the consensus TOP 11 are (Even though I don't generally agree with all of them) In no order

    Jordan
    Kareem
    Bird
    Magic
    Shaq
    Kobe
    LeBron
    Hakeem
    Duncan
    Russell
    Wilt

    So lets rank them by PER and see if the rankings make sense

    1. Michael Jordan 27.91
    2. LeBron James 27.79
    3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
    4. Wilt Chamberlain 26.13
    5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24.58
    6. Tim Duncan 24.56
    7. Magic Johnson 24.11
    8. Hakeem Olajuwon 23.59
    9. Larry Bird 23.50
    10. Kobe Bryant 23.36
    11. Bill Russell 18.87


    Obviously there are some outliers, as BLOCKS werent recorded in Wilt and Russell's day, meaning their PER may have been underrated

    But this seems to be a good indicator to judge players from 1970's- to now

    I think these rankings generally make sense, if you disagree with a particular player's ranking, please argue why you feel there is a discrepancy between their PER and what you feel their actual ranking should be

    Please no trolling, lets have an intellectual basketball debate

  2. #2
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    PER doesn't exist before 1977-78. You need all the stats in a box score to calculate it, and missing stats for seasons prior to 77-78 are zeroed out:

    The calcuation of uPER obviously depends on these statistics, so here are my solutions for years when the data are missing:

    Zero out three-point field goals, turnovers, blocked shots, and steals.
    Set the league value of possession (VOP) equal to 1.
    Set the defensive rebound percentage (DRB%) equal to 0.7.
    Set player offensive rebounds (ORB) equal to 0.3 * TRB.
    source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    PER doesn't exist before 1977-78. You need all the stats in a box score to calculate it, and missing stats for seasons prior to 77-78 are zeroed out:



    source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html
    I've addressed this in my post, thats why Wilt and Russells may be lower than actual

  4. #4
    sahelanthropus fpliii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Quote Originally Posted by dubeta
    I've addressed this in my post, thats why Wilt and Russells may be lower than actual
    It hurts Kareem too, since it cuts out most of his prime (his peak year is 76-77). LeBron also hasn't entered his decline phase yet, so his PER will go down.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Quote Originally Posted by fpliii
    It hurts Kareem too, since it cuts out most of his prime (his peak year is 76-77). LeBron also hasn't entered his decline phase yet, so his PER will go down.
    I doubt LeBron will go team jumping at the age of 40 like Shaq, or play at 40 like MJ to drastically reduce his PER

    LeBron has 2-3 years to INCREASE his PER, and about 2-3 years where it will DECREASE after

    So when he retires I think it will be the same it is now

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Neil Johnston - 24.69 PER, 9th best all time

    Bill Russell - 18.87 PER, 101st all time

  7. #7
    A Humble Lebron Fan Dragic4Life's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Good thread. Really shows who's the best players in NBA history by discounting team accolades.

  8. #8
    ... on a leash ArbitraryWater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    PER doesn't measure defense though, as illustrated by Sarcastic's post about Bill Russell.

    Now how the fvk is Neil Johnston up there?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Inb4 Ayotunde Ndiaye whit his PER.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Theres a reason why I only included the consensus TOP 11 GOATS, and not just rank the Top 11 PERs

    Because I want to rank the players that are seen together as the ultimate

    Its the same reason Jordan and Kobe fans whine when someone brings in Horry's 7/7 because Horry is tiers below

  11. #11
    Free the banned users. stalkerforlife's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Who's PER? Is he good? Can the Magic get him?

  12. #12
    King of LA Lebronxrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    great thread.

    This is well made and has no bias in it (like other threads)

    These are facts which you cannot dispute. Whether you hate these players or not, their impact doesn't change and this is an extremely valid contributer towards judging a player. Honestly, this is how players should be judged, by impact rather then rings/petty accomplisments.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebronxrings
    great thread.

    This is well made and has no bias in it (like other threads)

    These are facts which you cannot dispute. Whether you hate these players or not, their impact doesn't change and this is an extremely valid contributer towards judging a player. Honestly, this is how players should be judged, by impact rather then rings/petty accomplisments.


    Nothing quite like objective discussion

  14. #14
    Great college starter GrapeApe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    Quote Originally Posted by dubeta
    Theres a reason why I only included the consensus TOP 11 GOATS, and not just rank the Top 11 PERs

    Because I want to rank the players that are seen together as the ultimate

    Its the same reason Jordan and Kobe fans whine when someone brings in Horry's 7/7 because Horry is tiers below
    You could conceivably be 7/7 in the finals without having played a minute in any series. This is why it's a stupid argument (well one of the reasons anyway). PER, however, is a statistic based on actual play. By arbitrarily selecting and omitting players in which to compare you are effectively saying that PER is a flawed statistic, and if so what is the point of using it?

  15. #15
    3/8 is real Straight_Ballin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER

    PER is flawed in that it doesn't take choking in the finals into account. If you have a great 82 game season with good PER, what does it matter when you lose to guys like Leonard and Jason Terry?

    It was a good attempt to try and prop Bron up and overlook his failures in the finals which move him outside of the top 10....but such logic has just been exploited.

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