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Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Ok so this thread will try and see if statistics is a better indicator of ranking the GOATs. The stat is Player Efficiency Rating, a stat which gauges true player skill and contribution to winning.
Generally the higher the career PER, the more impactful the player was to helping his team win, ie. the BETTER the player he was
On ISH, the consensus TOP 11 are (Even though I don't generally agree with all of them) In no order
Jordan
Kareem
Bird
Magic
Shaq
Kobe
LeBron
Hakeem
Duncan
Russell
Wilt
So lets rank them by PER and see if the rankings make sense
1. Michael Jordan 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.79
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. Wilt Chamberlain 26.13
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24.58
6. Tim Duncan 24.56
7. Magic Johnson 24.11
8. Hakeem Olajuwon 23.59
9. Larry Bird 23.50
10. Kobe Bryant 23.36
11. Bill Russell 18.87
Obviously there are some outliers, as BLOCKS werent recorded in Wilt and Russell's day, meaning their PER may have been underrated
But this seems to be a good indicator to judge players from 1970's- to now
I think these rankings generally make sense, if you disagree with a particular player's ranking, please argue why you feel there is a discrepancy between their PER and what you feel their actual ranking should be
Please no trolling, lets have an intellectual basketball debate
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sahelanthropus
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
PER doesn't exist before 1977-78. You need all the stats in a box score to calculate it, and missing stats for seasons prior to 77-78 are zeroed out:
The calcuation of uPER obviously depends on these statistics, so here are my solutions for years when the data are missing:
Zero out three-point field goals, turnovers, blocked shots, and steals.
Set the league value of possession (VOP) equal to 1.
Set the defensive rebound percentage (DRB%) equal to 0.7.
Set player offensive rebounds (ORB) equal to 0.3 * TRB.
source: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/per.html
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Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Originally Posted by fpliii
I've addressed this in my post, thats why Wilt and Russells may be lower than actual
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sahelanthropus
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Originally Posted by dubeta
I've addressed this in my post, thats why Wilt and Russells may be lower than actual
It hurts Kareem too, since it cuts out most of his prime (his peak year is 76-77). LeBron also hasn't entered his decline phase yet, so his PER will go down.
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Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Originally Posted by fpliii
It hurts Kareem too, since it cuts out most of his prime (his peak year is 76-77). LeBron also hasn't entered his decline phase yet, so his PER will go down.
I doubt LeBron will go team jumping at the age of 40 like Shaq, or play at 40 like MJ to drastically reduce his PER
LeBron has 2-3 years to INCREASE his PER, and about 2-3 years where it will DECREASE after
So when he retires I think it will be the same it is now
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Neil Johnston - 24.69 PER, 9th best all time
Bill Russell - 18.87 PER, 101st all time
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A Humble Lebron Fan
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Good thread. Really shows who's the best players in NBA history by discounting team accolades.
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... on a leash
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
PER doesn't measure defense though, as illustrated by Sarcastic's post about Bill Russell.
Now how the fvk is Neil Johnston up there?
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Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Inb4 Ayotunde Ndiaye whit his PER.
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Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Theres a reason why I only included the consensus TOP 11 GOATS, and not just rank the Top 11 PERs
Because I want to rank the players that are seen together as the ultimate
Its the same reason Jordan and Kobe fans whine when someone brings in Horry's 7/7 because Horry is tiers below
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Free the banned users.
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Who's PER? Is he good? Can the Magic get him?
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King of LA
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
great thread.
This is well made and has no bias in it (like other threads)
These are facts which you cannot dispute. Whether you hate these players or not, their impact doesn't change and this is an extremely valid contributer towards judging a player. Honestly, this is how players should be judged, by impact rather then rings/petty accomplisments.
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Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Originally Posted by Lebronxrings
great thread.
This is well made and has no bias in it (like other threads)
These are facts which you cannot dispute. Whether you hate these players or not, their impact doesn't change and this is an extremely valid contributer towards judging a player. Honestly, this is how players should be judged, by impact rather then rings/petty accomplisments.
Nothing quite like objective discussion
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Great college starter
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
Originally Posted by dubeta
Theres a reason why I only included the consensus TOP 11 GOATS, and not just rank the Top 11 PERs
Because I want to rank the players that are seen together as the ultimate
Its the same reason Jordan and Kobe fans whine when someone brings in Horry's 7/7 because Horry is tiers below
You could conceivably be 7/7 in the finals without having played a minute in any series. This is why it's a stupid argument (well one of the reasons anyway). PER, however, is a statistic based on actual play. By arbitrarily selecting and omitting players in which to compare you are effectively saying that PER is a flawed statistic, and if so what is the point of using it?
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3/8 is real
Re: Let's rank the Top 11 GOATs by PER
PER is flawed in that it doesn't take choking in the finals into account. If you have a great 82 game season with good PER, what does it matter when you lose to guys like Leonard and Jason Terry?
It was a good attempt to try and prop Bron up and overlook his failures in the finals which move him outside of the top 10....but such logic has just been exploited.
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