Lebron fans: this response shuts down "1-9" nonsense

[Duncan21formvp]

1990 Game 4 @ Philly, no Pippen.

1988 First Round Pippen is coming off the bench and a role player.

[BedroomBully]

Why did Jordan's first 3 rings require 30% more PPG in the playoffs than Lebron, with equal assists???????

Answer:

1) Inferior cast (no all-star teammates in first 5 playoff runs seasons, while Lebron had 2)

2) Tough Conference (mj defeated twice the 50-win teams as Lebron in playoffs and the 80's East is widely known as toughest conference ever)

Because the mutha f@cka took 20+ more shots than the next man! duh!! More shots=More points. Now go back to the basement fat azz.

[BedroomBully]

Seriously...what is wrong with you? You have bene arguing the same thing for a year straight...making the same threads for a year straight...give it a rest. It's the off season now...but you will STILL be making these stupid ass threads while were actually discussing the present season because you haven't even ****ing watched basketball in 5 years. Anytime you bring up Lebron or Jordan you should instantly be banned till you can behave like a normal human being.

[ralph_i_el]

[COLOR="Red"]30% more points per game[/COLOR]

[HurricaneKid]

Did you really just attempt to provide evidence that LeBron had more help because he managed to get Z and Mo into ASGs?

Are you seriously suggesting that Z and Mo were even average starters? Because all evidence shows otherwise.

The fact that LBJ garnered SO MUCH ATTENTION that THOSE TWO were put in enough positions to succeed that they made ASGs seems to be as remarkable an achievement as a player can make.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1-9.

[TheWinningFam]

Jordan wouldn't be his teams best scorer/passer/rebounder/defender /rim protector for any of those finals. So if we swapped places jordan would have 2 rings at best, while lebron only having to score and play defense would probably have 8 straight.

[LostCause]

Jordan wouldn't be his teams best scorer/passer/rebounder/defender /rim protector for any of those finals. So if we swapped places jordan would have 2 rings at best, while lebron only having to score and play defense would probably have 8 straight.

Factually incorrect

Lebron has historically and factually been part of teams that perform below their expected levels with him as their best player, while many of Jordans teams have greatly exceeded the sum of their parts

http://image.prntscr.com/image/958f7...96c86c941f.png

Therefore we can conclude based on evidence that the Bulls would be inferior with Lebron, whereas adding Jordan to the teams that historically underperformed that included James should give them a boost. As in, 2011, 2012 and 2015

Based completley off of expected plus/minus and actual plus/minus, Lebrons teams have an average actual plus/minus of -4.2 than how they should perform. Jordans teams? On average, their actual plus/mins is +1.325

*For anyone arguing the legitimacy of the ratings, take it up with Basketball-Reference's SPS System and Real Box Plus/Minus. From the source:

But make no mistake, by the numbers, the 2016-17 Warriors could easily prove to be the most talented team in modern NBA history. If we use Basketball-Reference.com’s Simple Projection System to predict each player’s Box Plus/Minus for the following season and sum up those projections for each team,1 next year’s Warriors would be the most-talented team since 1979-802 if they merely surrounded their existing players — Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Kevin Durant, Draymond Green, Andre Iguodala, Shaun Livingston, Zaza Pachulia and David West, who is reportedly signing with Golden State on the veteran’s minimum — with replacement-level talent (think Luc Mbah a Moute or Norris Cole). In other words, even if they don’t add another meaningful player, Durant’s Warriors will probably surpass James’s 2010-11 Heat as the best collection of talent in the league’s past four decades or so.

[TheWinningFam]

Factually incorrect

Lebron has historically and factually been part of teams that perform below their expected levels with him as their best player, while many of Jordans teams have greatly exceeded the sum of their parts

http://image.prntscr.com/image/958f7...96c86c941f.png

Therefore we can conclude based on evidence that the Bulls would be inferior with Lebron, whereas adding Jordan to the teams that historically underperformed that included James should give them a boost. As in, 2011, 2012 and 2015

Based completley off of expected plus/minus and actual plus/minus, Lebrons teams have an average actual plus/minus of -4.2 than how they should perform. Jordans teams? On average, their actual plus/mins is +1.325

*For anyone arguing the legitimacy of the ratings, take it up with Basketball-Reference's SPS System and Real Box Plus/Minus. From the source:

So are you saying jordan would be his teams best scorer/passer/rebounder/defender/rim protecter while playing in a slower pace against better defenders than he did in the 90s?

[LostCause]

So are you saying jordan would be his teams best scorer/passer/rebounder/defender/rim protecter while playing in a slower pace against better defenders than he did in the 90s?

I'm saying Jordan probably wouldn't have to because he'd allow his teammates to play to their strengths more while still winning

You're trying to arbitrarily imply Jordan needs to do the bolded to achieve the same or better results than Bron. He doesn't. By virtue of his teams routinely playing ABOVE the sum of their parts, and Brons routinely playing below it, Jordan factually maximizes the talents of other top talent players better than Lebron does

Pace is about the same and even with Pace Adjusted Jordan's numbers don't change much or they improve, and against so-called "better defenders" with weaker contact rules Jordan can be even more creative than he was when he averaged 30 and 11 against the Lakers. This being the small-ball era also works in Jordans favor

[TheWinningFam]

I'm saying Jordan probably wouldn't have to because he'd allow his teammates to play to their strengths more while still winning

You're trying to arbitrarily imply Jordan needs to do the bolded to achieve the same or better results than Bron. He doesn't. By virtue of his teams routinely playing ABOVE the sum of their parts, and Brons routinely playing below it, Jordan factually maximizes the talents of other top talent players better than Lebron does

Pace is about the same and even with Pace Adjusted Jordan's numbers don't change much or they improve, and against so-called "better defenders" with weaker contact rules Jordan can be even more creative than he was when he averaged 30 and 11 against the Lakers. This being the small-ball era also works in Jordans favor

Defenses in today's game is much better than the 90s, as the 90s had much more freedom of movement. [COLOR="Green"]Illegal defense rules[/COLOR], [COLOR="Red"]Popularity isolation/concentration[/COLOR], [COLOR="Orange"]expansion teams that meant lack of parity and talent was spread across the league. [/COLOR]


Now this might seem like a good thing, but it created A LOT of easy beat teams, even so in the playoffs, that which the more stacked teams like Chicago/Houston/Portland/Orlando/Indiana/Phoenix could prey on. Essentially players like Jordan got a free ride into the playoffs year after year.

Great players in other era didn't get this ease to success, it had to be earned, and by later years, more modern eras like the late 2000's/early 2010's, human evolution had evolved further, athletes were more athletic then the previous eras, there was more talent to fill all 32 teams, this ensured more parity. In these modern times, every game was a true NBA talent face-off...

"the league added 6 teams between 88-95, so wins at the top of the league were inflated in that period."

For years during the parity-lacking 90's, a lot of games seemed like NBA squads v European teams. It simply was an easier time for elite teams. A way to describe the 90's would be to look at American society now... There is a big gap between the rich and the poor, not much middle ground/class.

Second point as to why the 90's was a bad era; Illegal defense rule schemes. (CONT.)

Many people don't understand this about the 90's, but defenses were very poor compared to the 2000's and 2010's. To basically summarize up Illegal defense would be to call it, a set of schemes designed to ensure man to man dominated competition and focus the game on individuals opposed to teams.



[COLOR="Red"]POPULARITY ISOLATION/CONCENTRATION[/COLOR]
During the 90's it was all about Jordan. This is what the media wanted, and they pushed it as far as they could. That's not to say Jordan couldn't swing on the swings by himself... But the ride is ALWAYS more thrilling and successful when daddy (Stern) is pushing you. In the 60's it was Russell and Wilt. The 70's was all about Doc-J and Kareem. The 80's? Magic and Bird, baby. But those butter-soft 90's? Air Jordan. He was the biggest star the sport had ever seen. He even starred in Space Jam, which is now a cultural iconic film frozen in time of an almost fairy-tale era.

I like to call the 90's the princess era. Not many people thought for themselves. What they saw on television, they sucked it right up, followed their every word, bought the narrative.


The game had now become a slow paced, defensive, isolation fest. All characteristics brought on from the playing times of Mike.

It would take nearly a decade to fix the mess brought on by Jordan... The rules where modified and altered to where now in 2015 it's the best it's ever been... the 3pt shot, floor spacing and teamwork is at an all time high... And ISO is reserved for the TRUE superstars in the league. The heir apparent came in the form of a prodigy by the name of Lebron James, who represents everything that is good and sustainable for the league, unlike what MJ offered, a high that would flatline.'' ''Credits go to ISB for the article.

In order for jordan to win ATLEAST 2 titles he would have to be the team's best scorer/passer/rebounder/defender/rim protector while facing tougher defensive schemes and individual defenders, Otoh lebron would only need p to focus on scoring and defense to get the minimum 6 rings while facing worse defenders and defensive schemes..

[vetlantram]

1-9.

[egokiller]

Did you really just attempt to provide evidence that LeBron had more help because he managed to get Z and Mo into ASGs?

Are you seriously suggesting that Z and Mo were even average starters? Because all evidence shows otherwise.

The fact that LBJ garnered SO MUCH ATTENTION that THOSE TWO were put in enough positions to succeed that they made ASGs seems to be as remarkable an achievement as a player can make.

Z was in the all-star game in 2003 before Lebron was even drafted you idiot. 297,895 votes. Just stop posting. Your head is so far up Lebron's ass you can't even effectively diminish his teammates so you resort to making shit up.

Don't tell that to 3ball. It holds no weight to his idiotic argument.

It doesn't hold any weight to 3ball's argument because it's completely false. This is why posters like you are a dime a dozen that can't win any arguments. You read some nonsense that someone posts and just assume it's factual, and then repeat it a week later.

[AirBonner]

Z was in the all-star game in 2003 before Lebron was even drafted you idiot. 297,895 votes. Just stop posting. Your head is so far up Lebron's ass you can't even effectively diminish his teammates so you resort to making shit up.



It doesn't hold any weight to 3ball's argument because it's completely false. This is why posters like you are a dime a dozen that can't win any arguments. You read some nonsense that someone posts and just assume it's factual, and then repeat it a week later.

Why don't you just use your 3ball account?

[egokiller]

Why don't you just use your 3ball account?

Because I'm not an alt of anyone. Every week some idiot says I'm an alt of someone different. I've been told I've been an alt of like 10 different posters and the reason why these morons keep saying this is clear:

No one can argue with my logic so they just accuse me of being someone's alt.