End of the Thibs era. Who else is gone?

[KelticForce1349]

I think Webber wants to go into management/ownership, not coaching. He's part of a group wanting to buy the Hawks.

Thanks for the info. Bummer. I really his analysis of what's happening on the court as he calls games or works (not nearly enough) with Kenny and EJ in the studio.

[KelticForce1349]

1) LOL at Rose/Butler being better than Wall/Beal. I know the caveat "if fully healthy" was brought up, but I can't even entertain that until it's proven. At this point, we need to assume Rose is hurt.

2) Why wouldn't this team contend? Unless we trade a major piece, we're still in "win now" mode.

3) As long as we're in "win now" mode, we need a coach to reflect that. Who? Mike Malone? Monty Williams? Alvin Gentry? I don't know. I don't follow coaching ranks. At all.

4) I think trading Taj would be a bad move, unless we get legit value for him. His contract is incredible. Gasol is the one to trade, if we trade someone. Opens up more time for Mirotic.

5) I honestly think the only change we "need" is trading Thibs for a pick. Some team would bite on that.

I know we WANT to win now, but I can't believe we are in a win-now mode after watching this recent playoff run. This team lost to an injury depleted Cavs, with an important piece suspended for two games and without Lebron playing amazing in every game. That huge shot that derrick hit to win game 3 could have easily missed and the Bulls probably would have lost the series 4 to 1.

let's not forget that they also allowed the Bucks to win two games before digging in.
Why did this team implode in this playoffs? There is no way that just changing coaches will fix this. Some of these guys must go and at least one key player must be added.

[kshutts1]

I know we WANT to win now, but I can't believe we are in a win-now mode after watching this recent playoff run. This team lost to an injury depleted Cavs, with an important piece suspended for two games and without Lebron playing amazing in every game. That huge shot that derrick hit to win game 3 could have easily missed and the Bulls probably would have lost the series 4 to 1.

let's not forget that they also allowed the Bucks to win two games before digging in.
Why did this team implode in this playoffs? There is no way that just changing coaches will fix this. Some of these guys must go and at least one key player must be added.

I was not fortunate enough to be able to watch many Bulls games, but when I was, I came away thinking that something was seriously missing. Noah and Gibson were not the same. They didn't have the same energy or intensity. Our team defense, as a whole, fell off. And then not playing hard in the playoffs. That sounds like they're all directly attributed to the coach not properly motivating players. Or everyone was playing hurt.

Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on coaching, but that seemed to be the biggest issue when I watched.

[tamaraw08]

I'm not sure I see a better candidate right now.
-D'antoni? No thanks I don't want to see him run Rose and Noah into the ground like he did Amare and Kobe's knees.
-Hoiberg? An unproven college coach? Eh.
-Brooks? No thanks. I don't want to watch Thibs-lite.

So...? Ron Adams? I HIGHLY doubt he's coming back. Mike Malone? Eh. JVG isn't coming to Chicago after one of his favorite coaches got canned and he knows the relationship between the FO and Thibs, plus with Vinny.

that means ...who?

Mike Malone, omg I forgot about this guy, what is your complaint about him? He did great at Sacramento and was the MAIN reason Mike Brown looked Good in Cleveland, ever since they parted ways, Brown was exposed where ever he went. But my pick is Doug Collins, and I don't think Brooks is Thibs lite. The guy is good enough IMO

[Rose]

Mike Malone, omg I forgot about this guy, what is your complaint about him? He did great at Sacramento and was the MAIN reason Mike Brown looked Good in Cleveland, ever since they parted ways, Brown was exposed where ever he went. But my pick is Doug Collins, and I don't think Brooks is Thibs lite. The guy is good enough IMO

My complaint about him is that teams aren't exactly lining up to get him. Plus there's really not a track record. I'd be kind of apathetic if we got him. I wouldn't mind Doug Collins, but I don't think he'd coach again. He got approached for the job before Thibs and decided not to take it because him and Jerry are such good friends. Which is fine.

Brooks hallmarks: good defense, godawful offense. Sounds like Thibs-lite. Whereas Thibs is a defensive mastermind, Scott is just good at it. Which is nothing to complain about, but why downgrade to that? Offensively how many times have people everywhere berated him because he can't draw up offensive sets despite having 2 of the 5? 6? best offensive players in the league. He kept using Perkins (Hinrich for Thibs) despite him being maybe not horrible, but definitely not starter or big minutes quality. He's not bad per se, but I'd much rather see a guy like Gentry or Hoiberg who are considered to be good offensive coaches.

[KelticForce1349]

I was not fortunate enough to be able to watch many Bulls games, but when I was, I came away thinking that something was seriously missing. Noah and Gibson were not the same. They didn't have the same energy or intensity. Our team defense, as a whole, fell off. And then not playing hard in the playoffs. That sounds like they're all directly attributed to the coach not properly motivating players. Or everyone was playing hurt.

Maybe I'm placing too much emphasis on coaching, but that seemed to be the biggest issue when I watched.

No worries. We are all upset right now and there is plenty of blame to go around from Thibs to the last guy on the bench. This is honestly the most disappointed I have been in the Bulls since I became a fan back in 1994.

[Showtime2001]

I kinda feel like we quit on thibs I'm gonna miss him.

[KelticForce1349]

I kinda feel like we quit on thibs I'm gonna miss him.

Yes, it bothers me a lot to be honest. I don't feel like he ever got a truly fair shake due to injuries and management letting certain players move on. The roster hasn't been consistent and we had less than optimal line-ups in many situations.

I really don't see 98% of the coaches out there keeping this team winning the way Thibs does. I feel like we would have missed the playoffs at least once under a different coach. For me personally, I do believe (as does Thibs) that defense wins championships. Shots don't always go in from even the most talented players. The NBA continues to become more about defense and I still feel that Thibs is far ahead of the pack.

We need more two-way players for Thibs to trust and to keep certain players minutes down. We can't have multiple Bogans or Brewer guys that defend but can't score to save their life. We can't have guys like Boozer defending the paint. Derricks defense didn't impress me much. I appreciate Jimmy for taking on Lebron, but wouldn't things have been much better if we had someone at SF that could defend that position?

Finding more guys that can score and defend are the job of Gar and Pax.

[tamaraw08]

My complaint about him is that teams aren't exactly lining up to get him. Plus there's really not a track record. I'd be kind of apathetic if we got him. I wouldn't mind Doug Collins, but I don't think he'd coach again. He got approached for the job before Thibs and decided not to take it because him and Jerry are such good friends. Which is fine.

Brooks hallmarks: good defense, godawful offense. Sounds like Thibs-lite. Whereas Thibs is a defensive mastermind, Scott is just good at it. Which is nothing to complain about, but why downgrade to that? Offensively how many times have people everywhere berated him because he can't draw up offensive sets despite having 2 of the 5? 6? best offensive players in the league. He kept using Perkins (Hinrich for Thibs) despite him being maybe not horrible, but definitely not starter or big minutes quality. He's not bad per se, but I'd much rather see a guy like Gentry or Hoiberg who are considered to be good offensive coaches.

Let me just say again that Gentry FAILED to have winning seasons, 8 out of 12times he coached. The one time he did great was in Phoenix with Nash was elite(far more assists/gm than WEstbrook with Brooks) with Hill and a few good offensive players.
IMO, the biggest Brooks critics are the Durant and/or WEstbrook worshippers who fail to acknowledge that the most of their teammates were very limited esp Thabo and Perkins. Bear in mind 3-4 yrs ago, Adams was not playing yet so there were very few alternatives. Im not saying Scott is elite but if he was that bad, then OKC wouldn't have beaten the MIghty Spurs, being coached by the very best Popovich and his 3 HOF players. Heck if his weaknesses are glaring, then why retain him for a couple more years,
Its amazing tho that when they failed to beat Heat, very few would blame Harden from his sudden disappearance...NOw it's bec of Brooks' short comings, forget the time when WEstbrook got injured and missed important games.

[drwax26]

It seems like a lot of people think Thibs is gone but that the team should remain the same. If this team remains the same you will get the same result. Yes, Thibs has his flaws as does everyone within the bulls organization and the players. The main problem on this team is no player on the court has that "dog" in them.

Evaluation of each player and whether they should stay or go:

Rose - Great talent, inconsistent this year because of injuries and mental hurdles. He needs to be the alpha dog on this team if they plan on making it out of the second round. STAY
Jimmy Butler- Good two way player but becoming overrated by the day. He is IMO a third scoring option on a Championship team. I would trade him for the right player such as Demarcus Cousins who the Kings reportedly may be shopping around
Dunleavy- Mr. Fundamental, I want him to stick around as he still has a lot left but may be better served off the bench. STAY
Gasol- Played very well this year. Not as much of an inside presence as we need but can still score and solid with weak side blocks. STAY
Noah- I love Noah but he has to go. He is an offensive liability, not very athletic and him running offense at the top of the key is a gimmick. Having a big man like him that can pass that far away from the basket is a luxury not a mandatory need. HE GONE
Brooks- Very solid but did not get much playing time in the postseason. Bring him back for the vets minimum. STAY
Hinrich- Hot garbage but he has a player option for $2.8 mill so we dont really have a choice unless the sixers take him on lol. I just hope he becomes like a player coach. STAY
Tony Snell- Needs to work with Butler in the offseason and get more confidence. He has some handles and can shoot. He needs to Start next year as the SG and slide butler back to SF. STAY
McDermott- He just needs playing time, enough said. STAY
Mirotic Played well at times and not so well at other times. He needs more consistency and Bulls need to figure out if he is a 3 or a 4. STAY
TAJ- Very inconsistent but can punish teams inside at times Because of his contract I would keep him unless we can include him in a trade for a star. STAY

Overall I hope the team can bring in an inside post presence with a trade which I know is tough to do. Also, in the draft I would like to see either a PG or defensive big like a Robert Upshaw.

[kshutts1]

Evaluation of each player and whether they should stay or go:

Rose - Great talent, inconsistent this year because of injuries and mental hurdles. He needs to be the alpha dog on this team if they plan on making it out of the second round. STAY
Jimmy Butler- Good two way player but becoming overrated by the day. He is IMO a third scoring option on a Championship team. I would trade him for the right player such as Demarcus Cousins who the Kings reportedly may be shopping around
Dunleavy- Mr. Fundamental, I want him to stick around as he still has a lot left but may be better served off the bench. STAY
Gasol- Played very well this year. Not as much of an inside presence as we need but can still score and solid with weak side blocks. STAY
Noah- I love Noah but he has to go. He is an offensive liability, not very athletic and him running offense at the top of the key is a gimmick. Having a big man like him that can pass that far away from the basket is a luxury not a mandatory need. HE GONE
Brooks- Very solid but did not get much playing time in the postseason. Bring him back for the vets minimum. STAY
Hinrich- Hot garbage but he has a player option for $2.8 mill so we dont really have a choice unless the sixers take him on lol. I just hope he becomes like a player coach. STAY
Tony Snell- Needs to work with Butler in the offseason and get more confidence. He has some handles and can shoot. He needs to Start next year as the SG and slide butler back to SF. STAY
McDermott- He just needs playing time, enough said. STAY
Mirotic Played well at times and not so well at other times. He needs more consistency and Bulls need to figure out if he is a 3 or a 4. STAY
TAJ- Very inconsistent but can punish teams inside at times Because of his contract I would keep him unless we can include him in a trade for a star. STAY

Rose -- I'd like him to go, but we can't get anywhere near good value on him. So he has to stay.
Butler -- Depends on his contract situation. I don't think he's a max player, but I'd happily pay him 12-15m a year. If he can take that, I want him. We just need to understand his weaknesses.
Dunleavy -- Agree on his bench role. Keep him if he can do that. He's not ideal, but cost-effective.
Pau -- I love what he brings to the table, and he's on a great deal. I just think his trade value is higher than his actual Bulls value, which means he should be traded.
Noah -- He's not an offensive liability. He may have been misused, but that's a coaching issue. Dude stays.
Snell and McDermott -- Agree. Stay and give them opportunity.
Mirotic -- I was skeptical of him before this year, and now I'm a huge fan. He stays. He starts.
Taj -- Stays mostly because of his acceptance of a bench role, even though he's starter-good.
Hinrich -- trade him as an expirer
Brooks -- Don't care either way. I like him in a limited role, but he's not what the team needs.

[tamaraw08]

It seems like a lot of people think Thibs is gone but that the team should remain the same. If this team remains the same you will get the same result. Yes, Thibs has his flaws as does everyone within the bulls organization and the players. The main problem on this team is no player on the court has that "dog" in them.

Evaluation of each player and whether they should stay or go:

Rose - Great talent, inconsistent this year because of injuries and mental hurdles. He needs to be the alpha dog on this team if they plan on making it out of the second round. STAY
Jimmy Butler- Good two way player but becoming overrated by the day. He is IMO a third scoring option on a Championship team. I would trade him for the right player such as Demarcus Cousins who the Kings reportedly may be shopping around
Dunleavy- Mr. Fundamental, I want him to stick around as he still has a lot left but may be better served off the bench. STAY
Gasol- Played very well this year. Not as much of an inside presence as we need but can still score and solid with weak side blocks. STAY
Noah- I love Noah but he has to go. He is an offensive liability, not very athletic and him running offense at the top of the key is a gimmick. Having a big man like him that can pass that far away from the basket is a luxury not a mandatory need. HE GONE
Brooks- Very solid but did not get much playing time in the postseason. Bring him back for the vets minimum. STAY
Hinrich- Hot garbage but he has a player option for $2.8 mill so we dont really have a choice unless the sixers take him on lol. I just hope he becomes like a player coach. STAY
Tony Snell- Needs to work with Butler in the offseason and get more confidence. He has some handles and can shoot. He needs to Start next year as the SG and slide butler back to SF. STAY
McDermott- He just needs playing time, enough said. STAY
Mirotic Played well at times and not so well at other times. He needs more consistency and Bulls need to figure out if he is a 3 or a 4. STAY
TAJ- Very inconsistent but can punish teams inside at times Because of his contract I would keep him unless we can include him in a trade for a star. STAY

Overall I hope the team can bring in an inside post presence with a trade which I know is tough to do. Also, in the draft I would like to see either a PG or defensive big like a Robert Upshaw.

All very good points, well except for Brooks imo. So accurate about Noah that I don't think no GM in his right mind would trade for him.
Going back to Brooks, I think his lack of PG skills has been exposed, that I would rather have Mo Milliams or Jameer Nelson.

[nathanjizzle]

joakim noah is an offensive liability. its been apparent for years. Its absolutely necessary to have an offensive big coupled with a star PG. It would make the game that much easier for the back court. I like brook lopez.

jimmy butler is overrated, and does not play well with rose. the bulls are a better team with rose by him self and not sharing the offensive load with jimmy in the backcourt. what rose needs is an offensive front court. I know thats going to rustle some jimmies, but its already proven.

last but not least, we need a real forward.

[Shade8780]

Brooks gets too much hate for the Thunder's lack of offense.

[smoovegittar]

I would not be surprised to see your management interviewing JVG soon.