Anthony Davis will win 2020 MVP

[j3lademaster]

Dude, the '11-'14 Heat almost always got raped when it came to rebounding. If it was that easy, they would've figured it out. Not saying that '15 LeBron was better than '18 LeBron (he wasn't), but rebounding is a crucial part of basketball. It's not not some random stat.

I

[ArbitraryWater]

we will just have to agree to disagree. Statistically sure, but the 15 warriors were an insane defensive team. Iguodala on Lebron with Klay and Draymond constantly with help. Lebron saw unreal defensive attention because his 2nd best offensive player is... who again.

18 was meh in Lebron standards outside of g1.

'18 his and teams spirit was crushed by the biggest steal of a game ever. and he injured his hand due to frustration of jr.

but that was his best level, his best playoffs, up to that overtime.

15 he definitely shot worse because of no offensive help, but he was shooting pretty poorly all playoffs... his J was nowhere near what it became in the 2016 playoffs and beyond.

[aj1987]

I’m not saying rebounding isn’t important. Iso scoring and playmaking is a much more scarce skillset and thus more ‘valuable’. Finding roleplayers who rebound and hustle is a lot easier than finding one who can score and make plays.

You said it's the most replaceable stat in basketball and implied that anyone can do it.

That's not even remotely close to being true and you're just moving goal posts now.

BTW, I still don't know why you called me a "douchy pseudo intellectual".

we will just have to agree to disagree. Statistically sure, but the 15 warriors were an insane defensive team. Iguodala on Lebron with Klay and Draymond constantly with help. Lebron saw unreal defensive attention because his 2nd best offensive player is... who again.

18 was meh in Lebron standards outside of g1.

Who else did they have to cover in '15? Delly? JR, whow couldn't hit the broad side of a barn? Shump with a torn roatry cuff?

Who?

[egokiller]

[QUOTE=j3lademaster]how do u rank 15 and 18 Lebron in terms of greatest finals performances? I know for a fact i

[aj1987]

Those aren't even Lebron's most impressive post season performances. In 2015 he had a teammate that was playing so hard he had to be hospitalized for ****s sake. His best performance was game 5 in 2007 against the pistons. He scored 25 straight and no one else on the Cavs scored. This was:

Before everyone started trying to live vicariously through Cavs fans that lived in Cleveland.

Before he ever joined Miami where everyone who never saw MJ was suddenly a Miami Heat fan.

Before he ruined his legacy by becoming a team hopping 3/9'er.

This was a legendary performance that actually mattered:

2:17.0 L. James makes 3-pt jump shot from 26 ft
0:31.4 L. James makes 2-pt dunk at rim
0:09.5 L. James makes 2-pt dunk at rim

Overtime

4:47.0 L. James makes free throw 1 of 2
4:47.0 L. James makes free throw 2 of 2
3:31.0 L. James makes 2-pt dunk at rim
2:54.0 L. James makes free throw 1 of 2
1:17.0 L. James makes free throw 1 of 2
1:17.0 L. James makes free throw 2 of 2
0:33.7 L. James makes 2-pt jump shot from 20 ft

2nd Overtime

4:31.0 L. James makes 2-pt jump shot from 19 ft
1:51.0 L. James makes 2-pt jump shot from 18 ft
1:14.0 L. James makes 3-pt jump shot from 26 ft
0:02.2 L. James makes 2-pt layup at rim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4z_pCA_6k

Did you just stumble upon that game? Is the internet in the janitors closet that slow? I wouldn't put that game in my top 5 of his performances.

[ArbitraryWater]

Those aren't even Lebron's most impressive post season performances. In 2015 he had a teammate that was playing so hard he had to be hospitalized for ****s sake. His best performance was game 5 in 2007 against the pistons. He scored 25 straight and no one else on the Cavs scored. This was:

Before everyone started trying to live vicariously through Cavs fans that lived in Cleveland.

Before he ever joined Miami where everyone who never saw MJ was suddenly a Miami Heat fan.

Before he ruined his legacy by becoming a team hopping 3/9'er.

This was a legendary performance that actually mattered:

2:17.0 L. James makes 3-pt jump shot from 26 ft
0:31.4 L. James makes 2-pt dunk at rim
0:09.5 L. James makes 2-pt dunk at rim

Overtime

4:47.0 L. James makes free throw 1 of 2
4:47.0 L. James makes free throw 2 of 2
3:31.0 L. James makes 2-pt dunk at rim
2:54.0 L. James makes free throw 1 of 2
1:17.0 L. James makes free throw 1 of 2
1:17.0 L. James makes free throw 2 of 2
0:33.7 L. James makes 2-pt jump shot from 20 ft

2nd Overtime

4:31.0 L. James makes 2-pt jump shot from 19 ft
1:51.0 L. James makes 2-pt jump shot from 18 ft
1:14.0 L. James makes 3-pt jump shot from 26 ft
0:02.2 L. James makes 2-pt layup at rim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4z_pCA_6k

wow, u found one undeniably legendary game and are able to give "credit"...

want a lolipop?

now do the rest for his other half a hundred playoff epics

[egokiller]

Show me another playoff performance by him where he scores 25 to end the game and no one else scores. I'll wait.

Did you just stumble upon that game? Is the internet in the janitors closet that slow? I wouldn't put that game in my top 5 of his performances.

Actually I was streaming the game live when it happened on my phone on the way to the hotel in the back of your taxi. Surprised you don't remember.

[j3lademaster]

Show me another playoff performance by him where he scores 25 to end the game and no one else scores. I'll wait.

how many of those even exist in NBA history? Genuinely curious

[aj1987]

Actually I was streaming the game live when it happened on my phone on the way to the hotel in the back of your taxi. Surprised you don't remember.

The only time you were in the back of a taxi was when you were cleaning one, janitor.

Lets not forget that you know the differences in the tiles in McDonald's as well. Go back cleaning toilets, kid.

Glad I saw that other thread.

[egokiller]

The only time you were in the back of a taxi was when you were cleaning one, janitor.

Lets not forget that you know the differences in the tiles in McDonald's as well. Go back cleaning toilets, kid.

Glad I saw that other thread.

Now that I recall, the back of your cab was dirty as shit. You really should clean it out once and awhile little man. As for McDonald's tiles, Manny98 posted a picture which showed the floor tiles he was standing on and also black shoes that he had on that had McD arches on them. Then someone posted a picture they grabbed off the net showing those shoes as part of the McDonalds uniform and a picture of the tiles in a McD's in the Philippines. Both matched Manny's pics, confirming that he works at McD's in the Philippines. Glad I could clear that up for ya cabbie, those fumes were starting to get strong.

[3ball]

I know for a fact i’m in the minority when i say [COLOR="DarkRed"]Lebron's 2015 Finals is the best I’ve seen[/COLOR]. Sometimes the superstar needs to keep shooting even when his shots not falling in order to remain impactful.

The Warriors have proven to be vulnerable without Durant, so Lebron kept the Cavs in that series with his volume alone, as other players have done in the past... But was he actually good in that series?

Here's some problems with his performance, and why his team could've done much better

The optimal scenario for a volume scorer is to get repeated iso's with almost no double-teams - that's exactly what lebron had, and they were literally the most isolated and spaced-out iso's the game has ever seen (these are all from Game 1):















But despite all that room and time to operate with no double-teams, lebron shot 39%, specifically because he shot 28.7% on jumpers... No team can win with someone shooting 40% of the team's shots, at 39% a pop.. and this shouldn't have happened because lebron enjoyed the most isolated iso's ever, with no double-teams

If lebron had shot 50% with that volume, the Cavs win easily - unfortunately, his shot was broke.. again, shooting 39% while taking nearly 40% of your team's shots can't win... Especially if your defensive assignment is an 8 ppg role player (Iggy) that you allow to average 16 and have better impact than an all-time great (Curry)..


Secondly, Lebron held the ball longer than anyone ever has (a record) - an astounding 30% more than 19' Harden:

Time of Possession per game

Lebron 15' Finals - 12.2 minutes
Harden 19' Reg S. - 9.3 minutes

Now I know what you're going to say - "lebron had nobody, so he had to hold the ball all the time"... But that's false - if the end result of the ball-domination is 35 ppg, then many players averaged 35 and didn't hold the ball anywhere near that long... Kawhi averaged 35 against the Sixers in ECSF and held the ball for 5.4 minutes..

Of course lebron averaged 8.9 assists... But his team only averaged 15.8 compared to the Warriors' 23.0... This is because he held the ball longer than anyone ever has, which destroyed ball-movement and made his teammates spot-up shooters... If he got his 35 points in 5 minutes like Kawhi instead of 12 minutes, the ball would've moved and his teammates would've had better opportunities... Indeed, Lebron's ball-domination will never be an adequate substitute for ball movement, which has always gotten better looks for role players than 1 guy dominating the ball in the half court

So ultimately, the Cavs could've beaten the Warriors if he achieved 35 ppg on 50% (given the repeated iso's that he enjoyed with no doubles), while reducing the Warriors team ppg by 8 points via holding Iggy to his normal 8 ppg instead of 16.. Most importantly, he should've scored his 35 in 5 minutes of hold-time instead of a preposterous 12 - then his teammates wouldn't be predictable spot-up shooters, while the team would have better ball movement and a brand of ball that can win.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]2018 Lebron’s game 1 is [COLOR="Navy"]amongst the best finals games I’ve ever seen[/COLOR][/COLOR].

Until the end.... when he broke down mentally because of JR's mistake and checked out of the OT.. This is unforgivable - he could've won that game and changed the trajectory of the series - but unfortunately, lebron has a history of checking out in the toughest moments (10' ECSF, 11' Finals).

Btw, Lebron's time of possession set a record again (11.5 minutes, or 25% more than 19' Harden, and #2 all-time).. this caused weak ball movement and the Cavs getting massively out-assisted again.. Infact, the common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists..

[COLOR="DarkRed"]I also get a good laugh whenever I read that Lebron should have taken the last shot instead of passing to Hill.[/COLOR] It backfires so easily because in saying that you’re basically admitting that lbj’s help was so bad that year that he should have taken a contested jumper than hit an open teammate for a layup... a teammate who is supposed to be a good ft shooter.

P.s i have [COLOR="Navy"]MJ[/COLOR] as the goat so no need to bring him into it if u reply to me. I really just wanna know tour opinion of those finals performances.

This is where you have the logic backwards - you say lebron is the best player and needs the ball over teammates, but not on the last shot?

That's backwards - lebron should take the last shot unless effectively double-teamed, and make sure the ball moves and teammates are engaged throughout the game

Finally, show me an instance where MJ passed to a teammate for the last shot, and they MISSED

I'll wait..

MJ's fearlessness was contagious, and his teammates sought their "jordan moment" when it was their turn.. Lebron doesn't lead or galvanize teammates this way.. Maybe that's because he marginalizes them with his excessive hold time and their narrow role as spot-up shooters simply isn't inspiring..

And if you look at the most famous non-mj game-winner - paxson in 93' - the ball was MOVING and paxson was in rhythm.. lebron's teammates could never hit a winner like that because the ball don't move on his teams
.

[j3lademaster]

if you look at the most famous non-mj game-winner - paxson in 93' - the ball was MOVING and paxson was in rhythm.. lebron's teammates could never hit a winner like that because the ball don't move on his teams
.

That's definitely a very good point. hard to hit gamewinning free throws if you haven't gotten the touches you're used to. I can tell this is analysis from someone who watches and understands the game at the highest level. Still a monumental testament to how great of a game Lebron had there. Warriors would have been favorites without Durant in that series and Lebron almost singlehandedly snatched g1 from them if it were for the egregious charge along with Hill and J.R choking.

All and all some very interesting perspectives, most that I agree with.

[aj1987]

Now I know what you're going to say - "lebron had nobody, so he had to hold the ball all the time"... But that's false - if the end result of the ball-domination is 35 ppg, then many players averaged 35 and didn't hold the ball anywhere near that long... Kawhi averaged 35 against the Sixers in ECSF and held the ball for 5.4 minutes..

Of course lebron averaged 8.9 assists... But his team only averaged 15.8 compared to the Warriors' 23.0... This is because he held the ball longer than anyone ever has, which destroyed ball-movement and made his teammates spot-up shooters... If he got his 35 points in 5 minutes like Kawhi instead of 12 minutes, the ball would've moved and his teammates would've had better opportunities... Indeed, Lebron's ball-domination will never be an adequate substitute for ball movement, which has always gotten better looks for role players than 1 guy dominating the ball in the half court

So ultimately, the Cavs could've beaten the Warriors if he achieved 35 ppg on 50% (given the repeated iso's that he enjoyed with no doubles), while reducing the Warriors team ppg by 8 points via holding Iggy to his normal 8 ppg instead of 16.. Most importantly, he should've scored his 35 in 5 minutes of hold-time instead of a preposterous 12 - then his teammates wouldn't be predictable spot-up shooters, while the team would have better ball movement and a brand of ball that can win.

Until the end.... when he broke down mentally because of JR's mistake and checked out of the OT.. This is unforgivable - he could've won that game and changed the trajectory of the series - but unfortunately, lebron has a history of checking out in the toughest moments (10' ECSF, 11' Finals).

Btw, Lebron's time of possession set a record again (11.5 minutes, or 25% more than 19' Harden, and #2 all-time).. this caused weak ball movement and the Cavs getting massively out-assisted again.. Infact, the common thread in lebron's last 4 Finals losses is massive deficits in team assists..

That's backwards - lebron should take the last shot unless effectively double-teamed, and make sure the ball moves and teammates are engaged throughout the game

LeBron was purposefully slowing down the pace. You don't win against the Warriors (with a garbage ass team no less) playing run and gun ball. They're gonna out shoot you and destroy you. The Cavs would've lost in 4 straight blowouts if they played uptempo basketball.

He couldn't hand over the playmaking duties to others nor was he able to let others make decisions, because they're low IQ players. Shump and JR were terrible and can't create for others. Delly had a hard time bringing the ball up court. Actually, Shump is a below average playmaker, but the other two are worse than garbage.

The game in which Mozgov put up 28 points, the Cavs lost by 21 points. LeBron struggled shooting the ball, but he did have 20/12/8. 12 rebounds and 8 assists (oh wait, rebounds and assists only matter when it's Bird). Delly went 3-14, JR 2-12, Shump 2-9, JJ 0-3, etc.. A combined 18% FG%. Literally no one could hit a shot. To top it off, the Warriors went small and Moz couldn't guard anyone on the court. Bogut was benched and Green was playing at the C.

You're blaming LeBron for Moz not getting more involved in game 5 after the 28 point game, when in fact, the COACH played him 9 minutes. He played over 30 minutes in game 6 and LeBron got him involved. Dude put up 17/12/4.

For the series, the 3 guys who played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest minutes managed to score a combined 25.5 points on sub 40% TS. 29% FG% and 28% 3pt%.

LeBron James finished the 2015 NBA Finals with averages of 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, and 8.8 assists per game.

LeBron James is the first player in NBA Finals history to lead both teams in points, assists and rebounds for the entire series.

Without James on the floor, Cleveland’s field goal percentage dropped for 40% to 17%, and it’s offensive efficiency fell from 97.3 to 50.9.

According to Tom Haberstroh of ESPN, James accounted for 38.3% of Cleveland's points in the Finals, the second-highest percentage of team points in Finals history. He is edged only by Michael Jordan scoring 38.4% of the Bulls' points in the 1993 Finals, which Chicago won.

He was responsible for an average of 57.7 points per game on points he either scored or assisted on; which in turn, accounted for 62% of the Cavaliers’s points in the NBA Finals.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, by pulling the Elo Ratings for each team to make the NBA Finals before the series began, and taking into account a team’s home-court advantage, it was able to project each team’s chances of winning prior to the Finals. What was discovered was that James’ teams had the lowest expected winning percentage — 37% — out of any of the other players on this list. If you consider that James still managed to win two titles with those odds stacked against him, the four losses don’t seem so terrible. And if we look at the 2015 Finals by itself, we’ll realize that James did was pretty much unprecedented.

“If we look at a multi-year Statistical Plus/Minus talent projection for every NBA Finals team, this Cavs team ranks as the ninth-least talented NBA finalist since 1985. (By contrast, Cleveland’s opponents, the mighty Golden State Warriors, rank as the 14th-most talented.) Remove James, and things get even more dire; his supporting cast ranks as the third-worst team carried by its best player to the NBA Finals since 1985.”

If you were to take James’s talent rating (6.6) and replace it with that of the league-average player (0.0), the Cavaliers’s talent rating would dwindle to -0.1. So what the King ended up doing was carrying one of the three-worst supporting casts in NBA history to within two games of a championship. Of course, what we forgot to mention was that FiveThirtyEight also determined that these Golden State Warriors finished the year with the second-highest peak Elo Rating (1822) in NBA history and third-highest Composite Elo Rating of all time (1796), making them one of the best basketball teams ever. And what James did against them remarkable.

When LeBron was NOT on the floor, JR Smith, Matthew Dellavedova, James Jones and Iman Shumpert DID NOT MAKE A SHOT in the NBA Finals

Without LeBron James on the floor this series.

JR Smith 0/9 FG

Delly 0/7 FG

J. Jones 0/3 FG

Shumpert 0/2 FG

Total 0/21 FG

Now that I recall, the back of your cab was dirty as shit. You really should clean it out once and awhile little man. As for McDonald's tiles, Manny98 posted a picture which showed the floor tiles he was standing on and also black shoes that he had on that had McD arches on them. Then someone posted a picture they grabbed off the net showing those shoes as part of the McDonalds uniform and a picture of the tiles in a McD's in the Philippines. Both matched Manny's pics, confirming that he works at McD's in the Philippines. Glad I could clear that up for ya cabbie, those fumes were starting to get strong.

Stop melting down and go clean the toilets, janitor.

[SpaceJam2]

When Bosh joined lebron, he hadn't been All NBA for 4 years. He hadn't been top 10 in MVP in four years... superstar.

When kyrie joined lebron he had never been all NBA. He has still never received an MVO vote... superstar.

Pippen, 3rd in MVP. 1st team all NBA. 1st team All D. Trash 2nd option.

Shut it down

[Celtics 1825]

This sure is aging well