Lebron can't carry a team anymore: Still the best player in the league though

[3ball]

Jordan's 1998 run was done with less supporting talent than Kobe's 2008:


[COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR]2008 Playoffs[COLOR="White"]....................................[/COLOR]1998 Playoffs

Pau Gasol[COLOR="White"]........[/COLOR]17/9/4 on 53%[COLOR="White"] ..........[/COLOR]Scottie Pippen[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]17/7/5 on 41%

Lamar Odom[COLOR="White"] ..[/COLOR]14/10/3 on 49%[COLOR="White"]........ [/COLOR]Dennis Rodman [COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]5/12/2 on 37% (not a starter in 98' PO or Finals)

Derek Fisher[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]10/3/2 on 45% [COLOR="White"]...........[/COLOR] Toni Kukoc[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]13/4/3 on 46%



Kobe had 4 other guys over 6 ppg, compared to 2 for Jordan..

Jordan's inferior help is why he had to score a much higher proportion of his team's points while on the floor, especially in the 4th:



[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1


Kobe 2008........ 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1



[COLOR="Navy"]I'm sorry... Look at those stats - there is NO WAY Kobe carried anywhere NEAR the load MJ did... You can't deny stats like that.[/COLOR]
.

[kennethgriffin]

There's only been 2 players modern day basketball in their primes that could completely carry a team of scrubs to the finals...Shaquille O'neal and Lebron James, LBJ although still the best player in the NBA and hass been since 2006, can no longer carry a team by himself. He can no longer blow by defenders at will, he can no longer control the boards, he can no longer run people down and block their shots.

Cleveland will struggle to make it to the finals this year, they will play long serieses, and LBJ will again play alot of minutes. Then he will play in the Olympics, next season will be a somewhat dramatic drop off, although he will easily be an all-star.

a) the cavs in 2007 were built on defense and 3 point shooting.. so they werent scrubs. they just had the right role players.

besides.. didnt they have big Z who was an allstar like a year before that?


b) its the east and its hard to miss the finals playing teams like the 41-41 wizards and the 41-41 nets..... then an aging pistons team on its last legs

[kennethgriffin]

Jordan's 1998 run was done with less supporting talent than Kobe's 2008:


[COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR]2008 Playoffs[COLOR="White"]....................................[/COLOR]1998 Playoffs

Pau Gasol[COLOR="White"]........[/COLOR]17/9/4 on 53%[COLOR="White"] ..........[/COLOR]Scottie Pippen[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]17/7/5 on 41%

Lamar Odom[COLOR="White"] ..[/COLOR]14/10/3 on 49%[COLOR="White"]........ [/COLOR]Dennis Rodman [COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]5/12/2 on 37% (not a starter in 98' PO or Finals)

Derek Fisher[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]10/3/2 on 45% [COLOR="White"]...........[/COLOR] Toni Kukoc[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]13/4/3 on 46%



Kobe had 4 other guys over 6 ppg, compared to 2 for Jordan..

Jordan's inferior help is why he had to score a much higher proportion of his team's points while on the floor, especially in the 4th:



[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1


Kobe 2008........ 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1



[COLOR="Navy"]I'm sorry... Look at those stats - there is NO WAY Kobe carried anywhere NEAR the load MJ did... You can't deny stats like that.[/COLOR]
.

how many times do i have to tell you


...since you obviously never watched the bulls.. youre a child or some shit


the bulls were BUILT ON DEFENSE


they had the 3 best defensive players in the nba for god sake


stop comparing kobe and jordans teammates

[3ball]

how many times do i have to tell you


...since you obviously never watched the bulls.. youre a child or some shit


the bulls were BUILT ON DEFENSE


they had the 3 best defensive players in the nba for god sake


stop comparing kobe and jordans teammates

[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1


Kobe 2008........ 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1



[COLOR="Navy"]Not even close - Jordan carried a FAR bigger load.[/COLOR]
.

[feyki]

Jordan's 1998 run was done with less supporting talent than Kobe's 2008:


[COLOR="White"]......................[/COLOR]2008 Playoffs[COLOR="White"]....................................[/COLOR]1998 Playoffs

Pau Gasol[COLOR="White"]........[/COLOR]17/9/4 on 53%[COLOR="White"] ..........[/COLOR]Scottie Pippen[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]17/7/5 on 41%

Lamar Odom[COLOR="White"] ..[/COLOR]14/10/3 on 49%[COLOR="White"]........ [/COLOR]Dennis Rodman [COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]5/12/2 on 37% (not a starter in 98' PO or Finals)

Derek Fisher[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]10/3/2 on 45% [COLOR="White"]...........[/COLOR] Toni Kukoc[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]13/4/3 on 46%



Kobe had 4 other guys over 6 ppg, compared to 2 for Jordan..

Jordan's inferior help is why he had to score a much higher proportion of his team's points while on the floor, especially in the 4th:



[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"]........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1


Kobe 2008........ 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1



[COLOR="Navy"]I'm sorry... Look at those stats - there is NO WAY Kobe carried anywhere NEAR the load MJ did... You can't deny stats like that.[/COLOR]
.

Ron Harper >>>>>>> Derek Fisher

Pippen >>>>> Gasol

Rodman >> Odom

And plus Kukoc ..

you know these .

[3ball]

Ron Harper >>>>>>> Derek Fisher

Pippen >>>>> Gasol

Rodman >> Odom

And plus Kukoc ..

you know these .

^^^^ None of that is true for the 1997 and 1998 versions of those players

And how do you explain these stats from NBA.com:



[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1


Kobe 2008........ 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1




^^^^^ That ends the argument
.

[kennethgriffin]

^^^^ None of that is true for the 1997 and 1998 versions of those players

And how to you explain these stats from NBA.com:



[COLOR="White"].................[/COLOR][COLOR="Red"]Percentage of team points scored while player was on floor[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1998.... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1


Kobe 2008........ 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1




^^^^^ That ends the argument
.

so every single player on the lakers is better than every single player on the bulls


except Jordan is slightly better than kobe


so which is the better team all time...


oh. now its a discussion about the best team ever and here comes your hypocritical agenda on why the bulls top to bottom are better



aaaaaand go!

[kennethgriffin]

its official... kobes lakers would dominate jordans bulls

i think.... you just ****ing convinced me

[3ball]

its official... kobes lakers would dominate jordans bulls

Jordan scored 50% more of his team's points in 1998 Finals than Kobe did in 2008 Finals - it isn't remotely close...




[COLOR="Red"]And now let's have some fun - let's compare Kobe in 1997 vs. Byron Russell.

Not 1 airball... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="Red"]Not 2..... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="Red"]Not 3.... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="Red"]But 4 airballs OMG... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Now let's see how the GOAT did it:[/COLOR]





[COLOR="DarkRed"]
I don't want to hear your bitching about Kobe's age because he NEVER did this in the Finals... EVER.... Whereas MJ did it several times.. [/COLOR]

[Marchesk]

Marchesk, you're wrong.

Was responding to OP saying that Shaq carried scrubs to the finals. Realized after the fact they may have meant Orlando, even though Penny was no scrub. Nick Anderson wasn't a scrub at that time either. And they had Horace Grant.

[kennethgriffin]

Jordan scored 50% more of his team's points in 1998 Finals than Kobe did in 2008 Finals - it isn't remotely close...




[COLOR="Red"]And now let's have some fun - let's compare Kobe in 1997 vs. Byron Russell.

Not 1 airball... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="Red"]Not 2..... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="Red"]Not 3.... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="Red"]But 4 airballs OMG... [/COLOR]






[COLOR="DarkGreen"]Now let's see how the GOAT did it:[/COLOR]





[COLOR="DarkRed"]
I don't want to hear your bitching about Kobe's age because he NEVER did this in the Finals... EVER.... Whereas MJ did it several times.. [/COLOR]

as bad as kobe played in the playoffs at age 18.. he was better than jordan was at 18


hense NBA reserve - 18ppg per 36min

vs

college 2nd banana 13ppg starter

[3ball]

Was responding to OP saying that Shaq carried scrubs to the finals. Realized after the fact they may have meant Orlando, even though Penny was no scrub. Nick Anderson wasn't a scrub at that time either. And they had Horace Grant.

yeah, I didn't really mean you were wrong either - I was just posting anything so I could get to the next page - I wanted to post the stats proving MJ carried a FAR bigger load in 1998 than Kobe did in 2008 - the gap is huuuuuuge.

See the stats above on this page, quoted several times by others - MJ carried a much bigger load in 1998 than Kobe's 2008 - it isn't remotely close - i.e. he scored 50% more of his team's points in the Finals while on the floor than Kobe did.

Also, Penny was 1st team all-nba in 1995 and 1996 (Shaq was 2nd team)... It was amazing how good Penny was before he got hurt.
.

[3ball]

as bad as kobe played in the playoffs at age 18.. he was better than jordan was at 18


hense NBA reserve - 18ppg per 36min

vs

college 2nd banana 13ppg starter

Yo, I can post the percentage of Lakers points scored by Kobe in ANY year, and 34-35 year old MJ's utterly destroys him..

34-35 year old MJ scored a far greater proportion of his team's points while on the floor than ANYONE, including Lebron, Wade, Durant, Westbrook, Curry - you name it...

Now imagine if we had stats from MJ's prime - like, 1988-1993, even 1996.... FORGET ABOUT IT - he probably scored 60-70% of his teams points while on the floor (he scored 45-50% in 1997 and 1998 playoffs and Finals)
.

[3ball]

college 2nd banana 13ppg starter

I bet Jordan could've beaten Kobe at 18 too - Kobe was a benchwarming scrub his first couple years.

[3ball]

Don't worry Kenneth - MJ destroys Lebron as well.. I'll post all the stats for Lebron on the next page, which I have in copy-paste mode.