ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #14 - Allen Iverson vs. Gary Payton

[Pushxx]

Payton is one of my top 5 favorite players ever, but he was not better than Iverson.

My vote: Allen Iverson

[RRR3]

This really says it all. Iverson and Payton are pretty much even in rebounds assists and steals but ai is a full 10 points ahead in scoring.

Those numbers really don't tell the whole story. I am not saying GP>AI or AI>GP (I don't have a vote in this anways), but it's just worth remembering.

[JohnnySic]

Tough choice, very tough, but its Iverson.

AI was a first-tier superstar who could carry a team. GP was.......really good, but not quite that.

[OmniStrife]

Iverson.

[NuggetsFan]

Few things

- Iverson has 3x first team All-NBA, Payton has x1.

- Payton has averaged 20+ 7 times. Iverson averaged 26+ 10 times in his career. Payton's career high is like .7 off Iverson's 4th lowest, 2nd if you disregard the Piston\Grizz situations. Sure Payton was more efficient but he never got to the line alot so the gap isn't as massive as you'd think. When Payton hit 24 a game he was taking 20 shots. Iverson was hitting 26 a game on 19 shots in Denver. Iverson also lacked offensive options next to him alot of the time. Iverson was literally like 10+ more points than Payton in there peak playoff runs. He has a massive advantage as a scorer.

- Payton is pretty much as elite as you can get defensively. Iverson is an elite scorer. One has an MVP the other a DPOTY. I'd rather the MVP. Payton's finished top 5 in MVP voting 1x, Iverson 3x. While the gap is pretty big defensively Iverson did force turnovers, albeit gambling alot getting 2+ steals a game still has some impact.

- Payton was the better passer, Iverson was still capable of getting others involved. His ability to penetrate and break down the D isn't exactly being a "floor general" but still effective non the less.

I'll go with Iverson. Not as complete and harder to build around but one of the best scorers of All-Time while being capable in other area's as well as having arguably a better resume. Has a better peak IMO too. I don't really factor in winning a ring while playing 20 minutes a game in comparisons like this either.

Iverson was a 30\7\3 player that was elite at playing the lanes while Payton was more of a 20\8\5 kinda guy with elite defense. Iverson just impacts the game more imo.

[WillC]

Gary Payton was a great player but I always felt he was a second banana type of player.

Iverson, meanwhile, could lead a team and carry them on his back to the Finals. Imagine if Iverson had someone like Kemp on his team?

It's extremely close but I'm going with Allen Iverson in this vote.

[RobertdeMeijer]

Just some interesting statistics:

Gary Payton's average of seven best SPM seasons: 5.58
Allen Iverson's average of seven best SPM seasons: 5.70

Gary Paytons average of seven best Win Shares seasons: 12.27
Allen Iverson's average of seven best Win Shares seasons: 9.77

Gary Paytons total Playoff win shares: 11.1
Allen Iverson's total playoff win shares: 7.3

[ThaSwagg3r]

My vote goes to Gary Payton. I thought the debate for #14 was going to be Drexler vs. Iverson, not Iverson vs. Payton. Anyways the posters in the first page already explained their argument for Glove and I can't really add anything else to it.

[Clippersfan86]

Gary Payton no question. Why? He was a 20 ppg+ scorer for 7 seasons ON TOP of being the best perimeter defender in NBA history (yes better than Rodman). Payton's defense was astounding. PG's never defended like that before. They are definitely on the same tier... but give me The Glove.

[andgar923]

Payton.

[Miller for 3]

I would go with Payton. Iverson is the better fit to carry a team of scrubs, but Payton is the preferred PG if you are building a championship caliber team. Everyone knows about his defense, but I wanted to praise his post game. Besides Magic, I don't think any PG had the post game of GP. Payton would just overpower guys who were bigger than him and get a nice 10 foot fadeaway off. After Kemp fell off the map he had some pretty crazy statistical seasons leading the Sonics as well

[rodman91]

I didn't defend KJ when this thing was going on (was busy), and he didn't even make Top 25 guards. There went 1 very underrated player just because he didn't have anyone showing how underrated he was. He should be Top 15-20

But I will defend Gary Payton, another very underrated player. But not in this thread, it is completely unnecessary because this is not even close. Even KJ belongs ahead of Iverson All-Time. Iverson is not even close to Payton and this thread is a waste.

See you guys next round. Just looking for and will give fair/logical arguments

[SteveNashMVPcro]

Gary Payton

[Kensta]

The Glove

[Papaya Petee]

Allen Iverson