Allen Iverson's 2001 playoff run is so overrated

[Kellogs4toniee]

T-Mac, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade all were on teams where their teammates were just as sh*tty. T-Mac had Darrell Armstrong, Jacque Vaughn, a young Mike Miller, Andrew DeClercq, rookie Drew Gooden, 300 pound Shawn Kemp, amongst others. Kobe had Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic, amongst others. LeBron had Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, washed up Shaq, amongst others. Wade had rookie Mario Chalmers, washed up Shawn Marion, washed up Jermaine O'Neal, rookie Michael Beasley, Joel Anthony, Udonis Haslem, amongst others. What seperates those guys from Iverson? No matter how sh*tty their teammates were, they were still way more efficient. They didn't throw up wild shots or struggle to shoot 40% from the field.

LeBron in '07 averaged 27.3 PPG on 20.8 FGA and shot 47.6% from the field, 30 PPG on 21.9 FGA and shot 48.4% from the field, 28.4 PPG on 19.9 FGA and shot 48.9% from the field, and 29.7 PPG on 20.1 FGA and shot 50.3% from the field.

Wade in '09 averaged 30.2 PPG on 22 FGA and shot 49.1% from the field.

T-Mac in '03 averaged 32.1 PPG on 24.2 FGA and shot 45.7% from the field.

Kobe in '06 averaged 35.4 PPG on 27.2 FGA and shot 45% from the field, and 31.6 PPG on 22.8 FGA and shot 46.3% from the field


Especially in the cases of Wade and Kobe in '06, their teammates were every bit as sh*tty as Iverson's teammates, yet they still shot respectable percentages. Kobe and T-Mac were just as much of perimeter players as Iverson and they still shot in the mid 40s. 45% is still a respectable percentage from a perimeter player that frequently attempts outside shots.

As for Iverson, the Sixers were a missed field goal or an Iverson turnover away from losing to the Raptors.

I'm confused what are you trying to prove here? That T-Mac, Lebron, and Kobe have had shitty teams before? No duh. I have yet to hear one person here say Iverson is on Lebron, Kobe, and Wade's level.

Again you are talking way too much about numbers. What did Lebron, Kobe, Wade, and T-Mac do with there shitty teams? There prescense elevated there teams success greatly relative to how bad it would be without them. Is that not the definition of what Iverson did in 2001? Seriously, stop putting up numbers like he barely shot 40%, or blah blah blah. The end result is the same. Iverson's prescense on the team elevated the team to results that would not have been possible without a player like Iverson. That's it, no need to compare him to Lebron, Wade, Kobe, T-Mac etc. In that sense how the hell is his 2001 play-off run over-rated?

[GS1905]

Haha give it up.

Why would we compare Iverson's 01 season and Wade's 08 season? Iverson took sixers to Nba finals that year. We're talking about his 03-04 season. Wade missed 31 games and the Heat ended up 15-67. They only won 10 games while Wade was playing. On the other hand Iverson missed 34 games and Sixers ended up with 33-49.

Who's the one twisting words here?

I didn't say anything about Mutombo's defense. He was still a good defender but he was old and he couldn't keep up with the tempo. I remember him playing pretty bad during some of the games. Let's not pretend like he was beasting or anything.

"His defense, along with the others covered up Iverson's weaknesses. They made Iverson look like a god." Lol'd so hard at this.

His defense was good but what about his shooting, ball handling, creating plays for himself & others, etc. If he was a better ball handler maybe Brown would've let him handle the ball but since he sucked at what should've been his best attribute that didn't happen. Same goes for his otter attributes. He pretty much sucked offensively and only thing that kept him in that starting five was his defense. This pretty much goes for other players too. They were good at some things but all around they were shitty.

The funniest things is you CLAIM these players made Iverson look like God. WOW just WOW

I'm not gonna say Iverson looked like God because like every other player he had his flaws but he was unstoppable during those years with Shaq. Shaq and him were the only players that dominated pretty much every single game night in and night out. Now you claim Iverson dominated because of his teammates..

[D.J.]

Why would we compare Iverson's 01 season and Wade's 08 season? Iverson took sixers to Nba finals that year. We're talking about his 03-04 season. Wade missed 31 games and the Heat ended up 15-67. They only won 10 games while Wade was playing. On the other hand Iverson missed 34 games and Sixers ended up with 33-49.

For starters, this thread is about Iverson's '01 season. And if you're going to compare, compare Iverson in '01 and Wade in '09.

Who's the one twisting words here?

Still you.

I didn't say anything about Mutombo's defense. He was still a good defender but he was old and he couldn't keep up with the tempo. I remember him playing pretty bad during some of the games. Let's not pretend like he was beasting or anything.

The tempo didn't seem to bother him. Not beasting? 14-15 RPG and blocking 4 shots a game isn't beasting? 12-13 RPG and 3 BPG for the first three rounds isn't beasting? That's pretty much Ben Wallace from 2001-2003.

"His defense, along with the others covered up Iverson's weaknesses. They made Iverson look like a god." Lol'd so hard at this.

Keep lol'ing.

His defense was good but what about his shooting, ball handling, creating plays for himself & others, etc. If he was a better ball handler maybe Brown would've let him handle the ball but since he sucked at what should've been his best attribute that didn't happen. Same goes for his otter attributes. He pretty much sucked offensively and only thing that kept him in that starting five was his defense. This pretty much goes for other players too. They were good at some things but all around they were shitty.

If he could shoot well, handle the ball well, create plays for himself and others, then I guess having him and Iverson on the court at the same time would be kinda pointless. Don't ya think? You can't have two guys dominating the ball.

The funniest things is you CLAIM these players made Iverson look like God. WOW just WOW

Being that people praise the little man for being horribly inefficient and nearly costing them the Toronto series, then yes.

I'm not gonna say Iverson looked like God because like every other player he had his flaws but he was unstoppable during those years with Shaq. Shaq and him were the only players that dominated pretty much every single game night in and night out. Now you claim Iverson dominated because of his teammates..

Well let's see. We're going to have everyone step up defensively and give him DPOY Mutombo. Coincedence that this was the only year he got past round 2? Looks like the brick wall behind him did make him look better.

[GS1905]

Man hit me up when you grow up.. I pretty much killed every single argument you had and you're still coming back with the same arguments. Go back and read what I said. I can't keep repeating myself for your dumb ass.

[D.J.]

Man hit me up when you grow up.. I pretty much killed every single argument you had and you're still coming back with the same arguments. Go back and read what I said. I can't keep repeating myself for your dumb ass.

You didn't kill any single argument I made. You're probably some loser living in his mom's basement. The only reason you repeat yourself is because you can't win an argument. Learn how to debate, then we'll talk. Until then:

[Kblaze8855]

They also started the season 0-8 without Wade and w/ Shaq. With Ricky Davis starting in place of Wade.

That team was just bad. Period. Can't use it against Wade in any form. And they had things going on behind the scenes that killed the season before it started(I.E Shaq feuding with Riley).

Oh so...with Wade we are keeping things in context and looking at reasons aside from him things went bad? I see. I assumed since this was a topic on Iverson such things would not be applied. I read what AI failed to do aside from 01. In 02 the teams top 4 scorers missed a total of 97 games. They were 36-24 in the games AI started...even with the rest of the offense being in and out.

In 2000 his second leading scorer played just 32 games and Hill, Ratliff, and Huges missed chunks of the season(hughes missed 32 games ratliff 24). AI himself 12. And he still got them 49 wins. Healthy I can see 55 or more. But they still won a series.

In 03 his second best player was a 2 years from retirement Keith Vanhorn. But he led them to 48 wins and a playoff series win.

In 04 he missed 34 games, Glenn Robinson(his newest "sidekick to take pressure off him") missed 40 games, and they changed coaches. Team did nothing.

Then hes got straight role players top to bottom plus 21 games of Webber.

The only year they should have probably been better than they were...in his entire Philly run...is 2006.

He goes to Denver...one year Nene misses a chunk of the season and Melo gets in the fight in NY so hes out for a while suspended. 15 games I wanna say. Next season Nene misses the whole season. They win 50 games anyway. He comes back healthy the next year and they also add Birdman as Camby left and they win 4 more games so they play the Hornets in the first round instead of the Kobe/Gasol Lakers or Spurs who won the title that they got to play with AI. Anyone think Melo minus the suspension or Nene playing at all might help them win 3-4 more games?

AI got a lot of bad breaks. But we sweep them under the rug. When someone else gets judged at face value of the season we look into why. With Ai not doing so well...people act like its him.

When its Wade, Kobe, or most anyone else....we gotta look deeper. Ai? Judge it by the cover.

[Ikill]

T-Mac, Kobe, LeBron, and Wade all were on teams where their teammates were just as sh*tty. T-Mac had Darrell Armstrong, Jacque Vaughn, a young Mike Miller, Andrew DeClercq, rookie Drew Gooden, 300 pound Shawn Kemp, amongst others. Kobe had Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Sasha Vujacic, amongst others. LeBron had Mo Williams, Anderson Varejao, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, washed up Shaq, amongst others. Wade had rookie Mario Chalmers, washed up Shawn Marion, washed up Jermaine O'Neal, rookie Michael Beasley, Joel Anthony, Udonis Haslem, amongst others. What seperates those guys from Iverson? No matter how sh*tty their teammates were, they were still way more efficient. They didn't throw up wild shots or struggle to shoot 40% from the field.

LeBron in '07 averaged 27.3 PPG on 20.8 FGA and shot 47.6% from the field, 30 PPG on 21.9 FGA and shot 48.4% from the field, 28.4 PPG on 19.9 FGA and shot 48.9% from the field, and 29.7 PPG on 20.1 FGA and shot 50.3% from the field.

Wade in '09 averaged 30.2 PPG on 22 FGA and shot 49.1% from the field.

T-Mac in '03 averaged 32.1 PPG on 24.2 FGA and shot 45.7% from the field.

Kobe in '06 averaged 35.4 PPG on 27.2 FGA and shot 45% from the field, and 31.6 PPG on 22.8 FGA and shot 46.3% from the field


Especially in the cases of Wade and Kobe in '06, their teammates were every bit as sh*tty as Iverson's teammates, yet they still shot respectable percentages. Kobe and T-Mac were just as much of perimeter players as Iverson and they still shot in the mid 40s. 45% is still a respectable percentage from a perimeter player that frequently attempts outside shots.

As for Iverson, the Sixers were a missed field goal or an Iverson turnover away from losing to the Raptors.

AI averaged 33 points on 45% in 06 with a pretty shit team and when Iverson was with Denver he averaged 26.4 points with 19 shot attempts which is pretty much the same as Wade and Lebron this year. Lebron averaged 26.7 points with 19 shot attempts and Wade averaged 25.5 points on 18 shot attempts

[Ikill]

imo it's not, but I think Lebronzy's playoff run in what 07? Is unfairly underrated right now.

No its not its overrated he averaged 25 points on 41%. That Cavs team wasn't even that bad they were a top 5 defensive team and had a winning record in games without Lebron. Lebron played horrible in the first two games against the Pistons and the Cavs only lost by 3 points. The teams he beat were not that good they played a 41 win Wizards team without Gilbert Arenas and Caron Butler a 41 win Nets team and a 53 win Pistons team that was old and unmotivated like come on the Cavs won while Lebron played horrible in 4 out of 6 games.

[GS1905]

You didn't kill any single argument I made. You're probably some loser living in his mom's basement. The only reason you repeat yourself is because you can't win an argument. Learn how to debate, then we'll talk. Until then:

Shut your fukin mouth you idiot. You don't know anything about basketball and you're here arguing some worthless shit. Get the *** outta here and go watch some basketball so you can learn something about it.

[3zazer1]

People love to hate on AI man. Who was the best player AI played with prior to his trade to the Nuggets? An over the hill Chris Webber?

Then Iverson gets traded to Denver, a solid team with a good group of players and magically his FG% goes from low 40s suddenly to 45-46 range. Comparable to Tmac and Kobe.

Exactly my point. The hate on A.I. is insane. He's made very poor decisions in his life, but you can't disvalue what he did on the court night in and night out. There's no bigger Ironman than A.I. Playing with multiple injuries. Lets just stop it!!

[Smoke117]

Iverson has always been a massively overrated chucker.

[ShaqAttack3234]

This team had Davis, Williams, Oakley who played pretty decent alongside Carter and some of you're saying Carter had a worse supporting cast than Iverson. ****ING LOL!

His cast was clearly worse. Neither had much talent around them, but Iverson's team was much better defensively(Philly's defense was elite, Toronto's was average) and both had good rebounding teams, but Philly was significantly better.

[D.J.]

Shut your fukin mouth you idiot. You don't know anything about basketball and you're here arguing some worthless shit. Get the *** outta here and go watch some basketball so you can learn something about it.

Thank you for proving my point. Lost a debate and instead of admitting you're wrong or simply shutting up, you resort to profanity. Word of advice: People that curse like that have limited vocabularies. That's why they curse like you just did. Go back to school and build that vocabulary, son.

[EricForman]

Oh so...with Wade we are keeping things in context and looking at reasons aside from him things went bad? I see. I assumed since this was a topic on Iverson such things would not be applied. I read what AI failed to do aside from 01. In 02 the teams top 4 scorers missed a total of 97 games. They were 36-24 in the games AI started...even with the rest of the offense being in and out.

In 2000 his second leading scorer played just 32 games and Hill, Ratliff, and Huges missed chunks of the season(hughes missed 32 games ratliff 24). AI himself 12. And he still got them 49 wins. Healthy I can see 55 or more. But they still won a series.

In 03 his second best player was a 2 years from retirement Keith Vanhorn. But he led them to 48 wins and a playoff series win.

In 04 he missed 34 games, Glenn Robinson(his newest "sidekick to take pressure off him") missed 40 games, and they changed coaches. Team did nothing.

Then hes got straight role players top to bottom plus 21 games of Webber.

The only year they should have probably been better than they were...in his entire Philly run...is 2006.

He goes to Denver...one year Nene misses a chunk of the season and Melo gets in the fight in NY so hes out for a while suspended. 15 games I wanna say. Next season Nene misses the whole season. They win 50 games anyway. He comes back healthy the next year and they also add Birdman as Camby left and they win 4 more games so they play the Hornets in the first round instead of the Kobe/Gasol Lakers or Spurs who won the title that they got to play with AI. Anyone think Melo minus the suspension or Nene playing at all might help them win 3-4 more games?

AI got a lot of bad breaks. But we sweep them under the rug. When someone else gets judged at face value of the season we look into why. With Ai not doing so well...people act like its him.

When its Wade, Kobe, or most anyone else....we gotta look deeper. Ai? Judge it by the cover.

you're right, blaze. i mostly agree with what you wrote above. i'll have to reevaluate my earlier opinions.

good bball discussion. been a while since i've had one on ISH because i've been dealing mainly with posters with Kobe or Laker avatars. (Except All Net, he's like the only one with a Kobe/Laker avatar who's a legit poster)