MJ & Kobe vs Defenses that allow less than 100 points per 100 possessions (<100 DRtg)

[Cali Syndicate]

Why make this thread then? if you're not trying to say kobe > MJ.

Btw out of curiosity is there a list of team drtg for this year?

because everyone hates Kobe and thinks MJ is God.

[Deuce Bigalow]

[Deuce Bigalow]

because everyone hates Kobe and thinks MJ is God.

And when he faces defenses that are on the level that Kobe faced, he shoots .400% or below.

[TheMan]

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why make this thread then? if you're not trying to say kobe > MJ.

Btw out of curiosity is there a list of team drtg for this year?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2013.html

Pacers and the Grizz are the only teams with less than 100 DRtg.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../NBA_2013.html

Pacers and the Grizz are the only teams with less than 100 DRtg.

Thanks.

Thunder leading the league in ft/fga by a huge margin

[Deuce Bigalow]

Thanks.

Thunder leading the league in ft/fga by a huge margin

Damn No surprise.

[TheMan]

because everyone hates Kobe and thinks MJ is God.

Naw, we don't hate Kobe, we hate the overrating of Kobe by his stans...Kobe is a great player and top 10 GOAT but he's not as good or better than Jordan.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It's not a completely invalid topic. It is something worth discussing when comparing Jordan and Kobe and the different eras they played in. And I've stated many times that Jordan was a flat out better player than Kobe.

But on the other side, it depends on how much you read into these numbers. There are a lot of factors. I do believe one was the game slowing down and shifting focus to defense more, which was already happening at the end of Jordan's Bulls career, and well before to some degree with Detroit and NY, though the transition hadn't fully been made yet. But the other end of that is that some of this came at the expense of quality offenses with more of a focus on isos, less post play, more 3s, less emphasis on mid-range play or easy transition opportunities. All of those are as big of a factor as better defenses were. And there was definitely more rim protection on average during Jordan's era, just like the defensive schemes have been more advanced in Kobe's era.

Point is, it's not as simple as the numbers. Some of those Spurs, Pistons and Celtic teams stack up well against any defense Jordan faced. And others were undeniably great defensive teams such as the '01 Sixers, and even a team without much size such as the 2000 Suns were an excellent defensive team after Skiles took over.

But then there are teams like the Kings. Those Kings teams were better defensively than they were given credit for. I always thought the perception of European players, Vlade's flopping and the Kings reputation as a fast-paced offensive team caused people to think they were worse than they really were. But there's no question that Jordan faced a number of defenses that were better than Sacramento. This is apparent just from watching the games. Hell, the '92 Knicks aren't listed and can anyone watch them and conclude Sacramento was better defensively? Granted, the Knicks numbers are down that year because it took time to adjust to Riley's schemes, but that's another factor not shown in their season defensive rating. And that's why you have to look a lot deeper.

No. Kobe's production was legit, the one benefit he had from playing with Shaq aside from winning was that he wasn't the primary focus of the defense, but this is the most important part, and anyone who watched those Laker teams knows this....

Teams were not playing off of Kobe to double Shaq, the double teams came from the other positions more often than not. Kobe was NOT just getting spoon fed open shots, if anything, he directly created for Shaq more with his penetration. Kobe's points didn't come easily, and he provided more than just scoring.

All true.

Even if you do that, it's still a higher FG% than Jordan
And who cares if Jordan was 34? He was in his 12th season and did he even approach 40k total minutes?
Kobe in '99 was 20 years old, I didn't remove that.

34 is still 34, though. It's old for the NBA and Jordan was not in his prime. Not that Kobe was either for a lot of those series.

Michael Jordan vs Defenses with better than 100 DRtg
'93 ECF vs New York: 32.2 ppg | 6.2 rpg | 7.0 apg | .400 fg% | .400 3p%
'97 ECF vs Miami: 30.2 ppg | 8.0 rpg | 2.6 apg .386 fg% | .118 3p%

Kobe Bryant vs Defenses with better than 100 DRtg
'99 WCF vs San Antonio: 21.3 ppg | 6.5 rpg | 3.5 apg | .447 fg% | .333 3p%
'00 WCSF vs Phoenix: 21.0 ppg | 3.8 rpg | 3.4 apg | .452 fg% | .154 3p%
'01 WCSF vs Sacramento: 35.0 ppg | 9.0 rpg | 4.3 apg | .473 fg% | .200 3p%
'01 WCF vs San Antonio: 33.3 ppg | 7.0 rpg | 7.0 apg | .514 fg% | .357 3p%
'01 Finals vs Philadelphia: 24.6 ppg | 7.8 rpg | 5.8 apg | .415 fg% | .333 3p%
'02 WCSF vs San Antonio: 26.2 ppg | 5.4 rpg | 4.8 apg | .455 fg% | .231 3p%
'02 Finals vs New Jersey: 26.8 ppg | 5.8 rpg | 5.3 apg | .514 fg% | .545 3p%
'03 WCSF vs San Antonio: 32.3 ppg | 5.0 rpg | 3.7 apg | .434 fg% | .441 3p%
'04 WCQF vs Houston: 24.4 ppg | 5.6 rpg | 6.2 apg | .386 fg% | .211 3p%
'04 WCSF vs San Antonio: 26.3 ppg | 6.3 rpg | 5.8 apg | .462 fg% | .320 3p%
'04 WCF vs Minnesota: 24.3 ppg | 4.0 rpg | 5.5 apg | .414 fg% | .267 3p%
'04 Finals vs Detroit: 22.6 ppg | 2.8 rpg | 4.4 apg | .381 fg% | .174 3p%
'08 Finals vs Boston: 25.7 ppg | 4.7 rpg | 5.0 apg | .405 fg% | .321 3p%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...m51NkZ2UU1sSlE
http://www.basketball-reference.com/

[Smoke117]

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Jordan was doubled and tripled on almost every single possession vs the Knicks in 93. In the end it failed because it just allowed Pippen to go off on them.

[qrich]

because everyone hates Kobe and thinks MJ is God.

No, they just hate stans like the OP who try to shove Kobe down everyone's throat and anyone who dares criticize him is automatically an ignorant hater. When, the reality of it is, most of these stans are the insecure haters themselves.

[rmt]

Michael Jordan vs Defenses with better than 100 DRtg
'93 ECF vs New York: 32.2 ppg | 6.2 rpg | 7.0 apg | .400 fg% | .400 3p%
'97 ECF vs Miami: 30.2 ppg | 8.0 rpg | 2.6 apg .386 fg% | .118 3p%

Kobe Bryant vs Defenses with better than 100 DRtg
'99 WCF vs San Antonio: 21.3 ppg | 6.5 rpg | 3.5 apg | .447 fg% | .333 3p%
'00 WCSF vs Phoenix: 21.0 ppg | 3.8 rpg | 3.4 apg | .452 fg% | .154 3p%
'01 WCSF vs Sacramento: 35.0 ppg | 9.0 rpg | 4.3 apg | .473 fg% | .200 3p%
'01 WCF vs San Antonio: 33.3 ppg | 7.0 rpg | 7.0 apg | .514 fg% | .357 3p%
'01 Finals vs Philadelphia: 24.6 ppg | 7.8 rpg | 5.8 apg | .415 fg% | .333 3p%
'02 WCSF vs San Antonio: 26.2 ppg | 5.4 rpg | 4.8 apg | .455 fg% | .231 3p%
'02 Finals vs New Jersey: 26.8 ppg | 5.8 rpg | 5.3 apg | .514 fg% | .545 3p%
'03 WCSF vs San Antonio: 32.3 ppg | 5.0 rpg | 3.7 apg | .434 fg% | .441 3p%
'04 WCQF vs Houston: 24.4 ppg | 5.6 rpg | 6.2 apg | .386 fg% | .211 3p%
'04 WCSF vs San Antonio: 26.3 ppg | 6.3 rpg | 5.8 apg | .462 fg% | .320 3p%
'04 WCF vs Minnesota: 24.3 ppg | 4.0 rpg | 5.5 apg | .414 fg% | .267 3p%
'04 Finals vs Detroit: 22.6 ppg | 2.8 rpg | 4.4 apg | .381 fg% | .174 3p%
'08 Finals vs Boston: 25.7 ppg | 4.7 rpg | 5.0 apg | .405 fg% | .321 3p%

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...m51NkZ2UU1sSlE
http://www.basketball-reference.com/

Pity MJ didn't have Shaq drawing double teams.

[DatAsh]

More than anything I'm just amazed at Jordan's longevity on the defensive end. He led his 03' Wizards to a better defensive rating than he and Pippen combined led the Bulls to in 91'.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Why are people still comparing MJ to Kobe? Its like comparing Kobe to Jordan Crawford lol, not even on the same level. Seriously everyone knows Kobe is just a failed replica of MJ, they may look similar but the quality aint even comparable.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Why are people still comparing MJ to Kobe? Its like comparing Kobe to Jordan Crawford lol, not even on the same level. Seriously everyone knows Kobe is just a failed replica of MJ, they may look similar but the quality aint even comparable.