#apples2oranges

[talkingconch]

And Kobe is a fcuking idiot for saying the comparisons are apples to oranges, they are as fcuking close to apples to apples as you can get.

- Same height (6'6")
- Same position (SG)
- Stacked teams (Pippen/Shaq)
- Same HC (Phil Jackson)

The only difference is that Kobe wasn't the best player on his stacked team, where Jordan was... And Michael would still be the best player if Shaq was his teammate.

Thank you for this post. The next time I see a Lebron terd say that Kobe does not compare to Jordan, i will link this post. Not that you are anybody of importance, but you may just be a Kobe-hater or Lebron stan, so its a win-win for me. Again, thank you for this post. At least now we know it is common sense to think Kobe IS comparable to Jordan and Lebron stans just kid themselves when they say he isnt.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan with Kobe's career path would be pretty unfair. Jordan/Shaq from 97-04' would have torn up the league in a way that hasn't been seen since the 60's Celtics.

Speaking in terms of the most likely outcome, bolded are most likely championship years.

Lakers:
1997 - Shaq/85 MJ Shaq best player
1998 - Shaq/86' MJ
1999 - Shaq/87' MJ Shaq best player
2000 - Shaq/ 88' MJ Shaq best player
2001 - Shaq/ 89' MJ Jordan best player
2002 - Shaq/ 90' MJ Jordan best player
2003 - Shaq/ 91' MJ Jordan best player
2004 - Shaq/ 92' MJ/ Malone/ GP Jordan best player
2005 - 93' MJ - Ridiculous stats
2006 - DNP
2007 - DNP
2008 - 96' Jordan/ Gasol Jordan best player
2009 - 97' Jordan/ Gasol Jordan best player
2010 - 98' Jordan/ Gasol Jordan best player

10 Championships That's just insane, though a lot of that timing with when Jordan retired and Kobe's team's sucking is pure luck.

Bulls:
1985 - 97' Kobe
1986 - 98' Kobe
1987 - 99' Kobe
1988 - 00' Kobe
1989 - 01' Kobe/ Pip
1990 - 02' Kobe/ Pip
1991 - 03' Kobe/ Pip Kobe best player
1992 - 04' Kobe/ Pip
1993 - 05' Kobe/ Pip
1994 - 06' Kobe/ Pip/ Grant Kobe best player
1995 - 07' Kobe/ Pip Kobe best player
1996 - 08' Kobe/ Pip/ Rodman
1997 - 09' Kobe/ Pip/ Rodman
1998 - 10' Kobe/ Pip/ Rodman
1999 - 11' Kobe
2000 - 12' Kobe
2001 - 13' Kobe

Kobe would have still had major success with those Bulls teams, in all likelihood we're looking at 5 championships with 5 FMVP, better than what he has now. Like with Jordan, a lot of it's timing, but still. This really puts Kobe's longevity in perspective with Jordan's. Even without an early retirement, he still outlasts him by 3 years and counting.

Great breakdown ... both Kobe and MJ would've saw success if they were interchanged. I do believe MJ would've seen significantly more dominant success, though. Less personal need for on court ego with Shaq. Given MJ would've instantly made more impact than Kobe, he wouldn't need to over play his cards of insecurity to PROVE himself the way Kobe felt compelled to ... ultimately killing the duo's chemistry with Shaq long term.

An MJ / Shaq combo would be truly frightening. I think 10 titles is realistic actually. I think Kobe would've won around 4 rings max ('91 and '98 being no-go's for Kobe b/c those rings were won unique to what MJ brought to the table) in comparison with those Bulls rosters, and with Pippen being his second best player. And 4 rings is being nice, considering I'm questionable about Kobe being able to lead the '92 and '93 Bulls past the '92 Knicks, '92 Blazers, and especially the '93 Knicks and '93 Suns. Those seasons '91, '92, '93, and '98 were won based off specific intangibles and skills MJ brings that Kobe just can't replicate. I think 2 - 3 rings of Kobe on the Bulls is more realistic. Kobe probably puts them over the top in '94.

But in regards to longevity between MJ and Kobe.

MJ very clearly was still near his peak and prime in '94 and '95 if he played. Especially if he didn't get out of bball shape with his baseball sabbatical. '94 being the probable last year of his peak abilities. '96 being the last year of his true prime, IMO.

You don't think MJ playing full seasons in '94 and '95, and still the best or arguably the best player in '98 at 35 years old ... couldn't have aged gracefully and kept playing the three seasons he missed in '99, 2000, 2001 and still retired in 2003?

That puts him at 19 seasons compared to Kobe's current 17 seasons. MJ clearly had the ability to play in '99, 2000, and 2001 ... still being an elite player. But MJ at that point didn't want to play if it wasn't going to be in a Chicago uniform, if Pip and PJ weren't going to be there, and if they weren't competing for rings every season.

You don't think MJ could've played those seasons?

[DetroitPistonFan]

how dare people mention KoMe's name in the same sentence as the great MJ.

Michael Jordan = Jordan = 6 Rings on 6 NBA Finals appearances
Magic Johnson = 5 Rings on 9 NBA Finals appearances

Jordan = 6 Finals MVP on 6 NBA Finals appearances
Magic = 3 Finals MVP on 9 NBA Finals appearances

Magic shouldn't be mention in the same sentence as Jordan neither.

[LongLiveTheKing]

They look fat AF.

[sportjames23]

Michael Jordan = Jordan = 6 Rings on 6 NBA Finals appearances
Magic Johnson = 5 Rings on 9 NBA Finals appearances

Jordan = 6 Finals MVP on 6 NBA Finals appearances
Magic = 3 Finals MVP on 9 NBA Finals appearances

Magic shouldn't be mention in the same sentence as Jordan neither.

Now this nikka wanna put down Magic to just to bring MJ down to Kobe's level.

Sit yo ass down, son.

[DetroitPistonFan]

Now this nikka wanna put down Magic to just to bring MJ down to Kobe's level.

Sit yo ass down, son.

It's facts but I hate all of them.

[K Xerxes]

There is far too much emphasis on career achievements, which sadly seems to be the overpowering barometer of greatness here.

MJ is greater than Kobe because he's a better player. That greatness translated itself to dominance in the form of multiple rings and MVPs, but they're not even necessary to see that MJ is better than Kobe. In his prime, he was more athletic, had a better midrange shot and was a superior defender. All Kobe has on MJ is the better long range stroke. However, as his career progressed, MJ developed his 3 point shot and became more skilled with his lost athleticism.

That's all I need to know.

[Nevaeh]

Jordan with Kobe's career path would be pretty unfair. Jordan/Shaq from 97-04' would have torn up the league in a way that hasn't been seen since the 60's Celtics.

Speaking in terms of the most likely outcome, bolded are most likely championship years.

Lakers:
1997 - Shaq/85 MJ Shaq best player
1998 - Shaq/86' MJ
1999 - Shaq/87' MJ Shaq best player
2000 - Shaq/ 88' MJ Shaq best player
2001 - Shaq/ 89' MJ Jordan best player
2002 - Shaq/ 90' MJ Jordan best player
2003 - Shaq/ 91' MJ Jordan best player
2004 - Shaq/ 92' MJ/ Malone/ GP Jordan best player
2005 - 93' MJ - Ridiculous stats
2006 - DNP
2007 - DNP
2008 - 96' Jordan/ Gasol Jordan best player
2009 - 97' Jordan/ Gasol Jordan best player
2010 - 98' Jordan/ Gasol Jordan best player

10 Championships That's just insane, though a lot of that timing with when Jordan retired and Kobe's team's sucking is pure luck.

Bulls:
1985 - 97' Kobe
1986 - 98' Kobe
1987 - 99' Kobe
1988 - 00' Kobe
1989 - 01' Kobe/ Pip
1990 - 02' Kobe/ Pip
1991 - 03' Kobe/ Pip Kobe best player
1992 - 04' Kobe/ Pip
1993 - 05' Kobe/ Pip
1994 - 06' Kobe/ Pip/ Grant Kobe best player
1995 - 07' Kobe/ Pip Kobe best player
1996 - 08' Kobe/ Pip/ Rodman
1997 - 09' Kobe/ Pip/ Rodman
1998 - 10' Kobe/ Pip/ Rodman
1999 - 11' Kobe
2000 - 12' Kobe
2001 - 13' Kobe

Kobe would have still had major success with those Bulls teams, in all likelihood we're looking at 5 championships with 5 FMVP, better than what he has now. Like with Jordan, a lot of it's timing, but still. This really puts Kobe's longevity in perspective with Jordan's. Even without an early retirement, he still outlasts him by 3 years and counting.

Interesting predictions Poochy, although I strongly disagree with the bolded part. The only thing that will always remain a mystery, however, is we will never know what kind of player Kobe would have been, without Jordan as a blue print. That's another curse that he's gonna have to live with it, because he painted himself into a corner where even youngsters are now calling him a "wannabe Jordan" based on them checking out video clips, and having older relatives who school them to the real origins of Kobe's game.

I can honestly see Kobe in the Clyde Drexler, Penny Hardaway, Prime Sprewell group of players, had he came into the league in the mid 80s. He would have been good, but not nearly as good had he not had Jordan to "push" him emotionally, having already laid his own Legacy down with a game clinching steal and shot to win his final ring.

Jordan, I believe, would have still been just as fundamentally sound, because he actually respects great coaching. The flip side for him, however, would be, would we have seen the "BEST MJ" that we got to see, meaning the version with "something to prove" constantly? Or would we have seen a content 23/5/5 version, on good efficiency, who never had a need to stand out?

There's a lot of variables that go into what motivates a person in a certain direction. The scary part, by all accounts on MJ's history, is that Basketball wasn't even his favorite sport growing up, like it was for Kobe. He just used it as an outlet to fulfill his competitive desires, where as Kobe used the game to define his whole character, seemingly. It's gotta hurt, knowing that as he gets older, that the game that he spent more than half of his life playing, and fighting to be the best at, will never see him as the "Greatest".

But hey, 5 rings right?

[Nash]

If Jordan got drafted into a team with prime Shaq in it he would have had 10 rings by now.

[chosen_one6]

Kobe tried so hard during his career to act, speak, and be competitive like Jordan. Now all of a sudden he doesn't want to be compared? It's a little late for that you f*cking hypocrite.

[DMV2]

Gotta love and laugh Kobe's arrogance.

He devalues Phil's opinion, blames Shaq's dominance for his inability to be the #1 on that 3-peat run, and questions Jordan's #1 option ability if he was playing with another All-Time Top 10 player-----all in one single tweet. LMAO.

[guy]

Hate it or love it, KB has a point.

If mike came in the league out of HS and was playing with the most dominant force ever and played in Phil's system,

And

Kobe came in after playing college ball and had great players and a great system (similar to 09/10) and his whole career he played with someone of SP level along with a great supporting cast

It would be different. Nobody is saying kobe would be better or anything. I'm not saying that, simply saying that it would be different.

Let's be real, an 18 yr out of HS would be shaqs #2 option too.
Look at Kobe's numbers on those 3 peats. Compare them to the numbers he put them as a #1 option. Imagine if M was sharing the ball with shaq.


So he has a point. In terms of careers, apples and oranges.

You don't know if playing with shaq made a positive, negative, or neutral impact on Kobe's career/talent and to what extent the same way we don't know what playing in M's situation would have done for Kb

Why should we assume Jordan doesn't go to college and Kobe does though? That has nothing to do with circumstance unlike who they get drafted by. Those were choices they made, not circusmtances they were forced into. Why should we assume they make different choices? It's not Jordan's fault Kobe didn't go to college and wasn't better prepared for the NBA, which is basically what Phil is saying. If we are going to speculate this drastic of a change in their career paths, then we are basically changing who they actually are as players.

[lebeast666]

Fvck off Chuckbe, you ain't no MJ. Be glad you got them rings gifted to you.

[uoykcuf]

Why should we assume Jordan doesn't go to college and Kobe does though? That has nothing to do with circumstance unlike who they get drafted by. Those were choices they made, not circusmtances they were forced into. Why should we assume they make different choices? It's not Jordan's fault Kobe didn't go to college and wasn't better prepared for the NBA, which is basically what Phil is saying. If we are going to speculate this drastic of a change in their career paths, then we are basically changing who they actually are as players.

Excellent post

[guy]

There is far too much emphasis on career achievements, which sadly seems to be the overpowering barometer of greatness here.

MJ is greater than Kobe because he's a better player. That greatness translated itself to dominance in the form of multiple rings and MVPs, but they're not even necessary to see that MJ is better than Kobe. In his prime, he was more athletic, had a better midrange shot and was a superior defender. All Kobe has on MJ is the better long range stroke. However, as his career progressed, MJ developed his 3 point shot and became more skilled with his lost athleticism.

That's all I need to know.

So true and exactly what Phil was saying. He said nothing about career achievements and career paths while they were in the NBA, which is all that matters since the comparison is based on their NBA career. How they developed up until that point is irrelevant when saying who's better. It's interesting to point out that its a reason why he's better, but it doesn't downplay that he is better, like some seem to be trying to do here.