1970 NBA Finals Game 7 breakdown - Jerry West sucks

[Psileas]

You, like the other guy, need to NOT assume my stance on an argument. I was simply asking a question. The reason I asked it, is because I've seen plenty of people defend the era, then quote some statistical achievements of those players. If you, or whoever makes these arguments including the statistical achievements agree they were inflated, they shouldn't be all that relevant in an argument.

Are you for or against all-time comparisons? I hope that, by saying this, you are against, because I see people making all-time comparisons, which involve, apart from stats, championship/MVP/DPOY comparisons. I need not go further to tell you that they can't be compared, either, for various reasons.
As for the stat inflation, it's been shown in the past that the only stat you can definitely say it was inflated in the 60's was rebounding, and that's why I'm not equating 20 rebounds in the 60's to 20 rebounds in the 00's. Scoring was inflated only team-wise, since shots were more evenly distributed among players. Assists and FG%'s were deflated, so, similarly, I don't equate 10 assists from the 60's to 10 assists from the 80's. Steals, blocks and TO's would almost certainly be inflated, but they weren't even counted.
And, of course, there's still the case of comparing players from the same era. You don't need statistical adjustment to know that Wilt was the greatest scorer of his era and him with Russell the greatest rebounders.

[Simple Jack]

Are you for or against all-time comparisons? I hope that, by saying this, you are against, because I see people making all-time comparisons, which involve, apart from stats, championship/MVP/DPOY comparisons. I need not go further to tell you that they can't be compared, either, for various reasons.
As for the stat inflation, it's been shown in the past that the only stat you can definitely say it was inflated in the 60's was rebounding, and that's why I'm not equating 20 rebounds in the 60's to 20 rebounds in the 00's. Scoring was inflated only team-wise, since shots were more evenly distributed among players. Assists and FG%'s were deflated, so, similarly, I don't equate 10 assists from the 60's to 10 assists from the 80's. Steals, blocks and TO's would almost certainly be inflated, but they weren't even counted.
And, of course, there's still the case of comparing players from the same era. You don't need statistical adjustment to know that Wilt was the greatest scorer of his era and him with Russell the greatest rebounders.

I think players should be judged based on what they did during their own era. Anything else involves assumptions. It's just illogical when people cite these statistics without some sort of context; especially when they agree that these numbers are inflated and couldn't be duplicated today.

[Niquesports]

I think players should be judged based on what they did during their own era. Anything else involves assumptions. It's just illogical when people cite these statistics without some sort of context; especially when they agree that these numbers are inflated and couldn't be duplicated today.

What the numbers do is show people who have no idea how good these players were some info on past players. You get people saying Lebron James was better than Elgin .IF your under 40 you have no real idea just how great Baylor was.I can't think of anyone that I know that knows the game wouldn't have Elgin in a top 10-15.So the numbers aren't look he scored 100 points in one game so he's the best ever. IT just sows how great this player was in his era.

[alexandreben]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMp7c2bcfkk

Stole this thread from r***gm. Does anyone know that Jerry West couldn't dribble left handed? This just proves that those were the weak era of NBA. As to be expected though, since earlier form of anything usually is.

without looking up Jerry West's left hand dribbling from video clips, take a quick look at some photos:

what is NBA logo again? left hand?


is this left hand?


is this left hand again?


is this left hand? just asking, i'm not that sure, cuz it was a weak era..

[jlauber]

without looking up Jerry West's left hand dribbling from video clips, take a quick look at some photos:

what is NBA logo again? left hand?


is this left hand?


is this left hand again?


is this left hand? just asking, i'm not that sure, cuz it was a weak era..

Hmmm...and not ONE time with his left hand UNDERNEATH the equator of the ball, either. Imagine what kind of numbers he could have put up while carrying the ball.

[CavaliersFTW]

What coach Nick did not know about this game is that Jerry West had both thumbs injured coming into this game - after watching all the rest of his games that I have and combing through his career footage its clear that barring injury West displays no issue at all alternating between hands fluidly. In any of Jerry's half a dozen other games available where he has no injuries to his hands he is transitioning between both hands seemlessly while driving through traffic with no signs of avoiding his off-hand in the process

[haji_d_robertas]

The guy was a great player. Time travel doesn't exist. Enjoy the game as it was. Enjoy the game as it is. You couldn't palm the ball back then. That's why
they dribble funny. So what. Nobody cares if you like old basketball players or not. Nobody cares what era you think is weakest, nobody cares about your fantasy teams or your Xbox Stats. Nobody cares who you think couldn't play in today's era. Nobody cares. It's over. Go to bed, little one.

[Poetry]

Does anyone know that Jerry West couldn't dribble left handed?

And apparently Wilt Chamberlain was a virgin.

[bdreason]

I wonder how many players today would look having to dribble with actual carry rules enforced, instead of like they allow now with the hand on the side of the ball.

Every other dribble would be a turnover. Guys like Rose and Crawford would be out of the league.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlryGCKtTo

This is a much more honest look at Jerry Wests handling abilities. He has a simple but secure handle (and he uses both hands) - nothing fancy, nothing wreckless. He can cut through traffic like a knife through butter and he creates space for his shot with fakes and quick changes of pace. And he was considered a superior backcourt player to any of the dozen or so guys of his era who liked to incorporate crossovers jab-steps and dribble-between-the legs / behind-the-back moves;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDtxGg2nLps

[WillC]

By complete coincidence, I happened to watch the 1970 Game 7 last night. I've seen it about 4 or 5 times now.

It's funny that the idiot on YouTube is criticising West for not dribbling left. I noticed him using his left hand plenty of times while watching the game. Sure, he usually drove to the right, but he still did so exceptionally well and was clearly enough of a threat going left that the defenders (who were exceptional, by the way) had to play him honestly on either hand.

[G.O.A.T]

People run into a problem with comparing players over eras because they rely on stats. The longer I look into the NBA and the history of it's the players the more sure I am that stats only tell you what a players role on a team is and how they performed in that role.

It's just that measurable stats, even advanced metrics, make-up such a small percentage of what goes into each play.

The notion that West "can't" dribble with his left hand is not only false, it's irrelevant. For even if West had no left hand his results speak for themselves.

As I've always said, you can only measure a player by what they did against their competition. Proposing what you think might of happened "if", "or" or "when" is a waste of time except to serve your own ego and drive your own agenda.

Most players can't correctly dribble a ball anymore, by the rules, there should be dozens of turnovers on unguarded dribbles every game. But there is not, so being able to dribble correctly does not matter, therefore it is not a valid criticism of someone in this modern era. However if Kyrie Irving took his exact style of play into 1962 for example, he'd average 10-15 turnovers a game. Obviously he'd adjust, which is my point. If West needed to dribble more with his left hand, he would have. His goal was not to impress someone born twenty years after he retired, but to beat anyone playing while he did. That's the common bond across eras and that's what's worth discussing.

[LAClipsFan33]

Love is 6'10-6'11. Besides, he is 10x better than the white guys in Wilt's era. So don't flatter yourself, sir.

LOL Kevin love wouldn't be 6'11" in platforms

[LAClipsFan33]

All any idiot has to do it look at 2 min of Jerry West highlights to disprove this. One of his favorite moves was a really hard fake drive with his left hand into a pull up jumper

[WillC]

His goal was not to impress someone born twenty years after he retired, but to beat anyone playing while he did.

Quote of the year.