Fpliii foretold the wise prophecy...

[russwest0]

Well the best thing to do is just do it once a day. There's a ton of posters on here and you're going to get more than 30 votes pretty quickly. So what I'm saying is you did it too fast. Don't listen to people who said you took too long. You did it just fine beforehand.

So basically it's a lose/lose situation no matter what

I wait a day or two on the voting; "Kobe is never going to win jackass! Close the vote already!"

Kobe gets over twice as many votes as the next guy, so I close the thread and move on; "Hey why'd you close the thread so early! Negged! I hope you get banned for corruption!"

It's clear that only morons were complaining about what I did in either scenario as I already outlined the rules in the OP so that everyone would be on page with what I was doing.

And it's also rather clear that Hakeem would have been #10 had a bunch of these morons had not made a big deal about absolutely nothing and tried to ruin the list with troll votes in the next thread. If any vote needed a "RE-DO," it's #10.

[DaSeba5]

So basically it's a lose/lose situation no matter what

I wait a day or two on the voting; "Kobe is never going to win jackass! Close the vote already!"

Kobe gets over twice as many votes as the next guy, so I close the thread and move on; "Hey why'd you close the thread so early! Negged! I hope you get banned for corruption!"

It's clear that only morons were complaining about what I did in either scenario as I already outlined the rules in the OP so that everyone would be on page with what I was doing.

Yes. It's ISH. People need to be patient. Do it once a day so everyone can get their votes in. It felt very rigged. As soon as Kobe had momentum and got a ton of votes, you moved on from the thread. It probably would have balanced out if you gave it a day. The 30 post thing wasn't a problem before because you waited a day or two anyways.

[russwest0]

Yes. It's ISH. People need to be patient. Do it once a day so everyone can get their votes in. It felt very rigged. As soon as Kobe had momentum and got a ton of votes, you moved on from the thread. It probably would have balanced out if you gave it a day. The 30 post thing wasn't a problem before because you waited a day or two anyways.

So Kobe having over twice as many votes as Hakeem at 30 votes was going to change with 30 more?

He had 21 votes to Hakeem's 9 and it was beyond clear that he was going to win. Even after I had made the new thread people were still voting for him. He had 10 straight votes at one point.

You don't seem to be part of the irrational crowd, yet you made a thread for a "RE-DO" voting as if it was needed, yet you created a whole new criteria to even be able to vote in that thread.

If anyone had been following the previous vote as well, Kobe was the runner up to Shaq. And basically every vote has been able to be predicted by the previous runner up, but regardless; Kobe had a clear lead and I closed the thread and moved on all according to the rules I outlined in the OP and the rules that everyone got on board with early on.

There were no problems at all with the voting aside from a bunch of morons purposely trying to derail the voting for #10.

[DaSeba5]

So Kobe having over twice as many votes as Hakeem at 30 votes was going to change with 30 more?

He had 21 votes to Hakeem's 9 and it was beyond clear that he was going to win. Even after I had made the new thread people were still voting for him. He had 10 straight votes at one point.

You don't seem to be part of the irrational crowd, yet you made a thread for a "RE-DO" voting as if it was needed, yet you created a whole new criteria to even be able to vote

It doesn't matter. You have to let things play out. You can't just assume it would end in a landslide.

I didn't create any criteria except doing it at a certain time. I asked people on how they wanted to do it. It wasn't my idea to require a certain post count.

In other words, the 30 post count was a bad idea. It just didn't become a problem until today because you waited a day or two for the next one. You never jumped ahead until today. That is all.

[russwest0]

I did let things play out according to all rules that ISH had agreed upon early on. And an increasing number of people kept wanting me to close the threads early whenever the winner was clear; so I do just that, and those same people start whining rigged without even taking the time to count the votes out.

If you fail to see how you are in the wrong here then...

We've already worked it out though and the problems have all been fixed. Kobe was the clear winner at #9 according to the votes and Hakeem was likewise the winner for #10.

[RRR3]

Russwest is like a spoiled 3 year old-"but i WANT it!!! it's not fair!"
And DaSeba is like his jaded father sick of the little monster he has to live with.

[DaSeba5]

I did let things play out according to all rules that we had agreed upon early on. And an increasing number of people kept wanting me to close the threads early whenever the winner was clear; so I do just that, and those same people start whining rigged without even taking the time to count the votes out.

If you fail to see how you are in the wrong here then...

We've already worked it out though and the problems have all been fixed. Kobe was the clear winner at #9 according to the votes and Hakeem was likewise the winner for #10.

You're missing my point. The 30 post count didn't become a problem until today because you waited. If you jumped ahead at other times because the number of votes then people wouldn't have cared so much that they felt cheated to vote on these lists. I know people agreed upon this criteria. I'm not even saying you're wrong. IJS the 30 post count is a bad idea and only became a problem until today because you jumped ahead for the first time today.

The only thing we're really disagreeing on is that LeBron actually got more votes for #10. In hindsight, I should have started at #12 and not redone #9.

[russwest0]

Russwest is like a spoiled 3 year old-"but i WANT it!!! it's not fair!"
And DaSeba is like his jaded father sick of the little monster he has to live with.

Posts like this don't add to the debate or discussion at all and are childish.

DeSeba was doing what he thought was right, but I don't think he realized at the time just how big of a disparity the votes actually were at whenever I closed it, nor the repercussions of only promoting the behavior of calling my actions "rigged." The repercussions I'm referring to were outlined ahead of time by highly respected poster Fpliii in the OP of this post if you were curious as to what they were.

[1987_Lakers]

The funniest part of this situation is why the hell were people on board with this project with a poster with a bunch of red bars and a known troll controlling it? You knew something like this was bond to happen.

[RRR3]

Didn't fpliii vote KG over Kobe on realgm?
Not a peep heard from you on that one though.

[russwest0]

Didn't fpliii vote KG over Kobe on realgm?
Not a peep heard from you on that one though.

Why do I care on who he votes for?

I don't have a problem who anyone votes for as long as it isn't a collective attempt to derail the list

[RRR3]

Why do I care on who he votes for?

I don't have a problem who anyone votes for as long as it isn't a collective attempt to derail the list

You can't honestly expect anyone to believe the bullshit you type. I mean, seriously, if you do.....

[DaSeba5]

It would have also been nice to be backed by a mod so the threads could be closed after we moved on so it doesn't look like another player got more votes. That's why I wanted to do it at a certain time every day. I want my #9 redo closed because it's pointless.

[russwest0]

The funniest part of this situation is why the hell were people on board with this project with a poster with a bunch of red bars and a known troll controlling it? You knew something like this was bond to happen.

I was actually going to post about that, and how DeSeba would have been a better candidiate to run the list strictly because the weak minded posters on here would have "trusted" him more and thus not cried "RIGGED!" whenever he closed a thread that had one man with 21 votes and another man with 9 after multiple posters were wanting the threads to be closed faster.

I was actually about to be in the green a while back with just one red bar and a bunch of reps on my recent history but decided I liked the color red better so I made a thread called "Official rep russwest0 thread" knowing what would happen and it dropped me down to like 4 or 5 red bars which is where I remain today because I don't care.

Only idiots would base their view of someone strictly off of a meaningless rep system, and my mindset has always been one that doesn't take those same idiots into consideration.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Didn't fpliii vote KG over Kobe on realgm?
Not a peep heard from you on that one though.

He also voted for LeBron over Magic in the run-off for #7...

Sorry I haven't participated much in this thread, been pretty busy the last couple of days. My vote would be for Hakeem here, but I don't want to repost the same reasoning. Next thread, assuming I have more time, I'll try and put together some nice quotes and data (no guarantee I'll have it done in time, though :) ).

As a preemptive runoff vote, my pick is LeBron James over Magic Johnson (note that I'm not sure about how I feel about either being in the conversation at the moment, when KG and Hakeem are still on the board). There are a couple of reasons for this (I'll try and give both sides, IMO):

1) Longevity isn't an advantage for Magic. He game into the league as a great player, but from ElGee's breakdown a few pages ago, it becomes clear that he wasn't a superior player to Bird (possibly not in his class as a player, though I don't feel comfortable going that far without watching a lot more tape first) their first few years in the league.

Now, LeBron didn't come into the league a finished product either, let me make that clear. I do think that LeBron turned in 5 seasons (possibly 6, not sure how I feel about 11 still, go back in forth), better than Magic's best season. As such, it's tough for me to make much of Magic's pre-prime seasons.

2) Defense. It's really, really tough to ignore this, especially when I'm not convinced Magic was on another level offensively when compared to James. Even though LeBron has "coasted" on that ended more or less the past couple of regular seasons, he's amped his defense up in the playoffs (and still during the last two years, likely superior to Magic at his best).

I do think Magic's defensive shortcomings are somewhat overstated though (that is to say, I don't think he was a sieve). He was actually utilized pretty well under Dunleavy in his last year from what I've seen. They played a good deal of zone from what I've seen, and this actually fit Magic well (since, from what I've seen, he liked to sag off his man, and play the passing lanes or collapse into the paint). I don't think it's fundamentally sound, and it presents a matchup problem as he ages, and loses his lateral quickness. You basically need to have a smaller or quicker guy in the lineup to cover PGs (especially a triple threat type guy) with Magic playing the lanes and guarding a bigger guy (which, from the tape, wasn't a problem for him...Magic seemed strong enough to guard big forwards who weren't extremely quick from what I've seen), which hurts his portability.

---

Speaking of portability in general, both guys are pretty ball-dominant, but both produced extremely efficient offenses (I believe with Magic's teams setting ORtg records, and LeBron's teams setting EFG% records). Both guys also demonstrated the ability to play off-ball (Magic early in his career, by accounts in this thread and from watching the paint, was a playmaker in the post, or slashed, or grabbed offensive rebounds; LeBron this season in particular was among the leaders in posting up and spotting up scoring efficiencies, and played off-ball a ton throughout the season with the guards feeding him in the post...though Miami went away from that at times in the playoffs, in particular against the Spurs, which was a monstrous jumpshooting series from LeBron).

I'm not going to use RAPM against Magic since it doesn't exist pre-96-97, though there is no guarantee he'd place as highly as LeBron did in J.E.'s 14-year study (LeBron and KG were in a class of their own, though it didn't include some of Shaq's peak years and a few of Duncan's earlier seasons, so it's possible either or both join the two of them). It's entirely possible though, Magic posted very good WOWY numbers in his prime according to ElGee's research in this thread: http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...=344&t=1333570