Mutombo and the TD Waterhouse Brawl that never happened

[GOBB]

I'm not saying fans should be allowed to do anything. You keep harping back to that.

I'm saying the players should have nothing to do with it. No talking back. No confrontations. Just tell security if it bothers you.

You always have a choice of what to do. If a player is being bombarded with racial slurs, you know what he can do? Walk off the court into the locker room and refuse to play. How's that for an option? See you have options on how to react. You don't need to resort to violence because of words. You make it seem players are uncontrollable animals and MUST react to certain slurs. I'm saying they are intelligent human beings and can react in a smart way if something goes over the line.

And the fan has a choice to not cross the line when it comes to throwing words at players. You are saying what players should do, what options they have and act like fans are savages with no rules, morals, values, respect. They were raised to be fools? I dont think so. You can delete player and insert fan and repost it as a 2nd post to fans. Players dont go in the stands and beat up fans and fans dont provoke players to that point by saying certain things they KNOW will draw a reaction. Goes both ways...but your posts have only went one way.

[Rasheed1]

You make it seem players are uncontrollable animals and MUST react to certain slurs. I'm saying they are intelligent human beings and can react in a smart way if something goes over the line.

No, Im just being realistic and looking at the problem from a common sense view point...

If Im stern and I really want these problems to go away, I handle both the players and fans

first you say player make soo much money they should be able to block it out, now you say they can do alot of thing besides go into the stands...

but you never bother to offer a solution to the problem... you are too busy defending the jack ass who cant control his mouth....

there is no reason to defend this clown or argue that he should be allowed in an NBA arena ever again let alone in a year...

my main point is that slurs will incite violence and all the other stuff you are saying is just mumbo jumbo background noise...

How's that for an option? See you have options on how to react. You don't need to resort to violence because of words.

instead of trying to teach the players how to deal with unruly fans, why not just regulate the fans? Why should mutombo and others shoulder even more responsibility while fans shoulder little to none?

That is not a logical way to solve the problem

Mutombo made it clear that he wants the league to do something about these racists who have nothing better to do than show up at a game and act a fool.....I agree with what the league did, and I hope they do it on a more consistant basis...that will send the message to all these clowns who think its funny to act without brains at a game...

very simple

[bagelred]

And the fan has a choice to not cross the line when it comes to throwing words at players. You are saying what players should do, what options they have and act like fans are savages with no rules, morals, values, respect. They were raised to be fools? I dont think so. You can delete player and insert fan and repost it as a 2nd post to fans. Players dont go in the stands and beat up fans and fans dont provoke players to that point by saying certain things they KNOW will draw a reaction. Goes both ways...but your posts have only went one way.

Yes, there is a higher standard of conduct players are held to than fans. Fans boo, fans heckle, fans drink, fans act like morons...

When the fans cross the line, security should take action.

Players are professionals. Professionals don't cross the line. Standards are higher for them.

It's like anything a fan does is justification for a reaction by the player. IT'S NOT!!

It's like in the street if somoene curses out your mother, and you shoot them in the head. "Well, he cursed out my mother. He crossed the line. What was I supposed to do? I reacted because I'm sensitive about that. It's not MY fault".

Players have a higher level of responsibility and need to let security decide how to control fan behavior. If the player feels he can't perform his job anymore do to fan behavior, then complain, tell security or leave the court. But you can't confront the fan.

[bagelred]

there is no reason to defend this clown or argue that he should be allowed in an NBA arena ever again let alone in a year...

Way to keep things in perspective.

[jbot]

wow, i can't believe the retard that was hecklin' mutumbo isn't even white. i'm glad to see they banned him too. the arena is one place that players should feel they are able to let their guard down a bit and concentrate on just playing the game.

[GOBB]

Wow. No disrespect, but I distinctly remember your words during the World Cup Final. When there were rumors that Zinadine Zidane was being called a racial slur by Marco Materazzi, you said that no matter what Marco Materazzi said, Zinadine Zidane should've kept his cool.

You never ever said things you said on your comments.

Now it happens to a basketball player, you suddenly become an ambassador of Peace or something on the whole issue.

I think you even said that if a racial slur was used against you, you wouldn't do anything.

You were playing the whole thing off like it was nothing.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

Again, no disrespect.

Yes because I condoned Mutombo leaping into the stands and cracking the fans skull right? Or headbutting the fan like Zidane did the Italian right? I condoned the violence that resulted from the racial slur that was thrown at Mutombo. In fact I support and applaud it so much right LakerRaider? I have the youtube video of the incident and get off watching the guy get pulverized. The physical violence that Mutombo displayed was great. Wait, hold up no violence was done.

Nothing i said in the Zidane topic was similar to the Mutombo topic. Absolutely nothing. So what are you saying? Where is the hypocrisy? Or is your reading and comprehenshion skills on low? It's ok, boost it back up. Being hypocritical is saying Mutombo should have ran into the stands and beat the fan down. But I didnt, what i did saw was it would be wrong for Mutombo to go in the stands, to stoop to his level...rather just point out the fan and let security handle it. Which they did.

And most of your post is confusing another poster with me. I never said if a racial slur was used against me I'd do nothing. Wrong guy bruh. So you're wrong with most of your reply. Typical of you tho

[Rasheed1]

Way to keep things in perspective.

you make me laugh...

you are overly concerned about being fair to guy who has proven he doesnt deserve to attend a game.....you worry about this jack ass right to come back and talk how its unfair to ban him for a year when the guy could sit home and watch games....fans dont have a right to attend a NBA game... its a privlege

If I go to the chinese store around the corner and start calling them all kinds of names, they'll kick me outta their store for good.....

Not unfair because I would have earned it....just like this guy yelling monkey at a basketball game

thefact that you are overly worried about him be able to come to another game is just pathetic... he willfully thru that out the window...

[wang4three]

I'm not saying fans should be allowed to do anything. You keep harping back to that.

I'm saying the players should have nothing to do with it. No talking back. No confrontations. Just tell security if it bothers you.

You always have a choice of what to do. If a player is being bombarded with racial slurs, you know what he can do? Walk off the court into the locker room and refuse to play. How's that for an option? See you have options on how to react. You don't need to resort to violence because of words. You make it seem players are uncontrollable animals and MUST react to certain slurs. I'm saying they are intelligent human beings and can react in a smart way if something goes over the line.

You gotta be ****ing kidding me if you believe this. How dare you justify any type of racist action. Just because they're professionals they should act like they're better? If Mutombo or any PERSON lets that go, it's called silent endorsement. And secondly, your example of shooting some guy in the head is some sort of horrible extereme. All Mutombo wants is an apology and action to be taken that's EXTREMELY DIFFERENT than shooting a guy for what he said. Do you not just see it?

As a fan of the NBA, are you saying you are below proffesional basketball players? That they're better and have stronger wills than you? Hell no. You're basically making all of us look like kids and that professional basketball players are these God-like creatures who exemplify morals beyond our grasp. That's some serious bull****, if you ask me. As fans we have a moral obligation to the AMERICAN society (none of your Europe based crap) to be sensible, and sensitive to each other, including NBA players. Mutombo should not to go into the stands, but he doesn't deserve to be discriminated base on his race.

You seriously need to get your morals in line.

[GOBB]

Yes, there is a higher standard of conduct players are held to than fans. Fans boo, fans heckle, fans drink, fans act like morons...

When the fans cross the line, security should take action.

Players are professionals. Professionals don't cross the line. Standards are higher for them.

It's like anything a fan does is justification for a reaction by the player. IT'S NOT!!

It's like in the street if somoene curses out your mother, and you shoot them in the head. "Well, he cursed out my mother. He crossed the line. What was I supposed to do? I reacted because I'm sensitive about that. It's not MY fault".

Players have a higher level of responsibility and need to let security decide how to control fan behavior. If the player feels he can't perform his job anymore do to fan behavior, then complain, tell security or leave the court. But you can't confront the fan.

Its amusing to see you throw out these extreme situations. If you were with your mother and i insulted her in front of you. You would do nothing is basically what you are saying. If you say otherwise this reply and others are nothing more then you talkin out your ass for the sake of it. A person wont shoot someone in the head if thier mother gets cursed out but they would get physical with that person. But according to your logic the person who is defending their mother from being disrespected is wrong...and should understand its just words. Brush them off right? My mother wouldnt look at me as her son and I would feel less of a man having to look in the mirror each day that some prick disrespected her in my prescence and i did nothing.

Dont go extreme with no gun shot to the head. Obviously snatching someones life vs their mother being disrespected isnt one in the same. Cut the nonsense out.

There are professionals in attendance and adults. WHY do you ignore this?

Did you address the situation where a kid is at the game and the fan is throwing around curse words and occasional racial slurs (you know words that are just words)? What do you do if I called players racial slurs and cursed repeatedly in front of your family? In front of you young kids? You turn to your wife and say "Hey honey, this is the price we pay for coming to the game."? Or do you address the heckler in front of you or next to you shouting those things?

THe guy shouted monkey out for all to hear...Mutombo heard it but so did other FANS. Made up of adults, professionals, woman and kids. Its ok for them to hear this. Or is it? Fans need to know when they cross the line and he did. All you do is tell me what the players conduct should be but the fan is just that a fan and its expected. What if there were blacks around the guy using the racial slur? What if Mutombo kids were nearby and heard it? See you dont think about none of this.

Just the player shouldnt react and enter the stands. Ok the player doesnt acknowledge it and wont enter the stands. He doesnt even look the guys way. But guess what? A dozen or more fans heard the racial slur and are subjected to hearing it until that fan gets what he wants...a reaction from that player on the court.

[bagelred]

This is fun.

Once again, everyone has me defending the racist. I'm not defending him and I don't defend unruly fans from acting like aholes. I just think security should be the ones to handle the situation.

If someone is being completely out of hand and I brought my kids to game, I would ask them to stop. If they didn't, I would ask security to do something. I probably wouldn't expect the player to run into the stands and "take care" of the situation.

I also think punishments should fit the crime. Fans are allowed and even encouraged to boo, yell, heckle, chastise the opponent. If someone steps over the line and yells something racial (possibly in a drunken state), LIFETIME BAN!!! Way to keep perspective....

If someone says something offensive, have the security guard threaten him to shut his trap, he'll get the message, and if he doesn't, then he's ejected. I think that would be appropriate.

I don't think players should react to it, think about it, and need to ignore it. In those extreme circumstances where they can't, tell security, tell police officers, or do something appropriate as a professional.

Standards of conduct are higher for players than fans:

Fans are allowed to boo at the top of their lungs, players can't

Fans are allowed/even encouraged to heckle the opponents, players can't say anything to fans.

Fans can drink alcoholoic beverages, players can only use steroids (joke).

Fans can yell at referees all they want. Players would get ejected.


So yes standards are different.

[geeWiz15]

I was at a playoff game when Blazers were facing Dallas and there was this obnoxious white kid in front of me that kept saying **** to Nejera like, "Go back to Mexico!" I wanted to punch the kid in the back of the head. It pissed me off.

I'm almost positive Najera isn't Mexican. Am I wrong?

[GOBB]

Once again, everyone has me defending the racist. I'm not defending him and I don't defend unruly fans from acting like aholes. I just think security should be the ones to handle the situation.

You dont defend them but for the most part in your posts you all but said it was ok for them to say whatever they want. Freedom of speech. Words are just words. And since players are professional and trained to handle the heckling whats the big deal?

Now you're saying you dont defend unruly fans, dont condone the behavior and security should handle them. Whatever happened to the fans right to say whatever it is they want? Monkey isnt outlawed so why should security force them to stop sayin it? Freedom of speech flashlight cop..,beat it. Right?

Seems you're moonwalkin now. For the most part your theme is players shouldnt go in the stands for any reason. Boom we got that. What other arguments are fans shouldnt be saying those things in the first place. Boo'ing a player and being encouraged to boo is not the same as racial slurs. What is being argued by some is fans crossing the line should be held accountable. And fans in general need to be responsible for the things they say.

[Rasheed1]

I also think punishments should fit the crime. Fans are allowed and even encouraged to boo, yell, heckle, chastise the opponent. If someone steps over the line and yells something racial (possibly in a drunken state), LIFETIME BAN!!! Way to keep perspective....

bagel

this not the american justice system..... Any business can set those rules any way they like... If you go to a golf course and get drunk and berate the other patrons...you could get ejected for good....

this idea of 'perspective' is not applicable when it comes to privliges like attending an NBA game...

if you abuse the privlige(sp?) its gets taken away from you...you dont have a right to say when it should be returned, if it ever is returned... you f*ck up and you have to watch games from the crib or at a sports bar....

NBA officials and players and other fans who happen to know how to conduct themselves in public dont need to be insulted by the presence of this guy who has already proven he doesnt know how to act in public..

he doesnt deserve any perspective, but if he is alllowed back he should count his bleesings and wear duct tape over his yap when attends a game from now on

Standards of conduct are higher for players than fans:

no they arent and they shouldnt be either.... each group has equal resposibility to maintain an enjoyable environment..

you have this silly idea that fans should be able to act a fool and it not be a big deal...while players behavior should be strictly regulated... its not realistic... you talking nonsense

fans can yell & boo and say things to players...but they cant use racial slurs or personal insults... how hard is that to comprehend and abide by?

this nonsense about players being held to a higher standard is just garbage...

booing is acceptable

yelling is acceptable

talking smack is acceptable

racial slurs are not acceptable

personal insults are not acceptable

[bagelred]

You dont defend them but for the most part in your posts you all but said it was ok for them to say whatever they want. Freedom of speech. Words are just words. And since players are professional and trained to handle the heckling whats the big deal?

Now you're saying you dont defend unruly fans, dont condone the behavior and security should handle them. Whatever happened to the fans right to say whatever it is they want? Monkey isnt outlawed so why should security force them to stop sayin it? Freedom of speech flashlight cop..,beat it. Right?

Seems you're moonwalkin now. For the most part your theme is players shouldnt go in the stands for any reason. Boom we got that. What other arguments are fans shouldnt be saying those things in the first place. Boo'ing a player and being encouraged to boo is not the same as racial slurs. What is being argued by some is fans crossing the line should be held accountable. And fans in general need to be responsible for the things they say.

LOL

Look, all I'm saying is its a grey area.

Fans are allowed to heckle, boo, chastise, make noise, be loud, etc. Then sometimes they cross the line. I'm not saying it's right, but it happens. If it gets real bad and offensive, then security needs to take action.

We've all been to games where we hear people yell or scream stuff we've found offensive. Sometimes action is taken, many times its ignored as the ramblings of a moron.

From what it sounds, maybe that's how it should have been treated, ramblings of a moron. Security should have went over and said "knock it off".

But a season ban? Really? And people want a lifetime ban? over some dumb comments? Really? Reeeeeeeeeeeally?

[bagelred]

bagel

this not the american justice system..... Any business can set those rules any way they like... If you go to a golf course and get drunk and berate the other patrons...you could get ejected for good....

this idea of 'perspective' is not applicable when it comes to privliges like attending an NBA game...

if you abuse the privlige(sp?) its gets taken away from you...you dont have a right to say when it should be returned, if it ever is returned... you f*ck up and you have to watch games from the crib or at a sports bar....

NBA officials and players and other fans who happen to know how to conduct themselves in public dont need to be insulted by the presence of this guy who has already proven he doesnt know how to act in public..

he doesnt deserve any perspective, but if he is alllowed back he should count his bleesings and wear duct tape over his yap when attends a game from now on



no they arent and they shouldnt be either.... each group has equal resposibility to maintain an enjoyable environment..

you have this silly idea that fans should be able to act a fool and it not be a big deal...while players behavior should be strictly regulated... its not realistic... you talking nonsense

fans can yell & boo and say things to players...but they cant use racial slurs or personal insults... how hard is that to comprehend and abide by?

this nonsense about players being held to a higher standard is just garbage...

booing is acceptable

yelling is acceptable

talking smack is acceptable

racial slurs are not acceptable

personal insults are not acceptable

OK so they are not allowed to make personal insults and racial slurs. Of course, this happens all the time at sporting events, but whatever.....

The point is let security make the decisions how to deal with these guys or if they feel they need to take action. Players should stay away from that stuff completely....