LeBron vs Hakeem - who do you rank higher all-time?

[illmaticone]

I got Hakeem in the #10 spot. If LeBron wins this year with this Cavs team vs. GSW I think he breaks into the top-10, but as of now I think Hakeem should be ranked higher all-time.

He has the same amount of championships (finals mvps) with inferior talent and having to go through a tougher road. He also took a pretty bad team to the finals in '86 and won 2 games vs. the best team of all-time.

Who do you guys rank higher all-time? Does your opinion change if LeBron wins this year? And where do you rank LeBron if he wins this year?

[r15mohd]

Lebron's at 11 looking in...however when's all said and done, with the same finals/fmvps to their names, Lebron will hold the 10 spot because he will just have that much more to his resume as does the Dream

if Lebron wins this year and gets FMVP, he'll bump up to #9 to replace Kobe and Hakeem drop out the top 10, personally.

[illmaticone]

Lebron's at 11 looking in...however when's all said and done, with the same finals/fmvps to their names, Lebron will hold the 10 spot because he will just have that much more to his resume as does the Dream

if Lebron wins this year and gets FMVP, he'll bump up to #9 to replace Kobe and Hakeem drop out the top 10, personally.

I agree with this. LeBron is #9 if he wins this year. However, losing this year and potentially future years could definitely impact LeBron's overall rank. If he retires with the same amount of rings/finals MVP's as Hakeem (2), playing in the weak Eastern Conference that he plays in, that would probably mean he's going to lose 2-3 more times in the finals. I don't think he would take the #10 spot in that case.

[r15mohd]

I agree with this. LeBron is #9 if he wins this year. However, losing this year and potentially future years could definitely impact LeBron's overall rank. If he retires with the same amount of rings/finals MVP's as Hakeem (2), playing in the weak Eastern Conference that he plays in, that would probably mean he's going to lose 2-3 more times in the finals. I don't think he would take the #10 spot in that case.

well this where you and I will surely disagree...losing in the Finals isn't a huge setback for me, especially considering Lebron's 2007 run and this year's depleted Cavs team if they were to lose.

no one takes away anything from Magic, Bird, TD, Kobe, or even the great Wilt...so no reason for it to be held against Lebron. all the other guys are ranked on what they achieved, not what they didnt.

[illmaticone]

Of those players you listed, Duncan is 5/6, Magic is 5/9, Kobe is 5/7, and Bird is 3/5. I wouldn't hold it against him if I didn't factor in how weak the ECF has been during his runs.

[illmaticone]

Again, I have him locked into that #11 spot. He cannot go lower. But if he doesn't win any more championships in the rest of his career, he is definitely not going to pass Hakeem in my eyes.

[r15mohd]

Of those players you listed, Duncan is 5/6, Magic is 5/9, Kobe is 5/7, and Bird is 3/5. I wouldn't hold it against him if I didn't factor in how weak the ECF has been during his runs.

logic is flawed with your mindset...the losses basically become irrelevant and additional stats/accolades become the adjacent measure to finalize the rank:

-Wilt has 2 titles and many losses, and is top 5. the losses didn't hurt him.
-Bird has 3 and 2 losses, yet ranked over Shaq with 4 and 1 loss? doesnt make sense if you take into consideration losses

you can hold conference weight to a degree, but then you have to decrease Magic's place from the 80s because he played in a sh!tty WC during their run, and very comparable to the East today

[Ne 1]

Hakeem. He was just a better player and his 1994/1995 championship runs are more impressive than LeBron's IMO. Hakeem is probably the best player of the past 25 years other than Jordan, in my opinion. He could carry your offense in the post, create looks for the shooters with his passing out of double teams, play effectively 15-20 feet from the basket if necessary by facing up and shooting or driving, and his defense was just unbelievable. Whether it was defending screen/rolls, blocking shots or even later, his post defense. He was the best defensive player of the past 30 years. His ability late in games offensively was rivaled only by Kareem among centers, and very few have had the ability to raise their play so consistently in big games, and this started even early in Hakeem's career (see 1986-1988 playoffs).

I go back and forth on some players, but while both Hakeem and LeBron are the best of the best, I really can't see a convincing argument to make me change my mind on this one. It's clear enough to me.

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron's resume has ALREADY surpassed Hakeem's. There is simply no argument. More MVPs, as many rings, as many FMVPs, more Finals, more overall team success. You name it, Lebron is ahead. Plain-and-simple.

In fact, I would argue that Moses was more dominant than Hakeem, as well. And if you include ABA Dr. J, he is also ahead of Hakeem.

Olajuwon is at best #11, and could be as low as #13.

Lebron also has a strong case over Bird, although I wouldn't take offense at those that rank Bird higher. IMHO, Bird's peak was SLIGHTLY better than LBJ's peak, but after that, Lebron hands down.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron's resume has ALREADY surpassed Hakeem's. There is simply no argument. More MVPs, as many rings, as many FMVPs, more Finals, more overall team success. You name it, Lebron is ahead. Plain-and-simple.

In fact, I would argue that Moses was more dominant than Hakeem, as well. And if you include ABA Dr. J, he is also ahead of Hakeem.

Olajuwon is at best #11, and could be as low as #13.

Lebron also has a strong case over Bird, although I wouldn't take offense at those that rank Bird higher. IMHO, Bird's peak was SLIGHTLY better than LBJ's peak, but after that, Lebron hands down.

Yeah this is getting comical. Dream didn't win a single playoff series in his "prime" from 25 yrs old to 30 yrs old. And missed the playoffs altogether at least once. He got past the 1st round 6 times total.

He was obviously a great player but LBJ has been the best player in the league for the last 7 seasons and has made the Finals as many times as Dream won a playoff series. Plus he has better hardware (more MVPs, etc).

If you think Dream had a better career at this point your opinion doesn't carry much weight with me.

[Duncan21formvp]

Hakeem was clearly better. Hakeem actually beat top tier players in there primes/peaks. Lebron avoided that and only beat guys when they were 36+ years old or 23 years old and younger.

[LAZERUSS]

Hakeem was clearly better. Hakeem actually beat top tier players in there primes/peaks. Lebron avoided that and only beat guys when they were 36+ years old or 23 years old and younger.

Yep...he beat Ewing's undermanned Knicks team in a season in which the real best player in the league did not play (and his team went 55-27 without him, and narrowly lost a close and controversial seven game series against Ewing's Knicks)...

and then he got saved by his teammates in the '95 Finals, in a series in which a young Shaq outplayed him.

The rest of his post-season career...pretty much getting blown out in the first round. Oh, and he played on five teams that won 50+ games in his 18 season career, with a high of 58 wins. He didn't win with Drexler and Barkley as teammates (in fact, got swept in the second round), and then couldn't win with Barkley and Pippen.

[Rocketswin2013]

Hakeem is probably my favorite past era player ever, but LeBron is better. Peak is close, prime is more distant.

[Rocketswin2013]

Lebron's resume has ALREADY surpassed Hakeem's. There is simply no argument. More MVPs, as many rings, as many FMVPs, more Finals, more overall team success. You name it, Lebron is ahead. Plain-and-simple.

In fact, I would argue that Moses was more dominant than Hakeem, as well. And if you include ABA Dr. J, he is also ahead of Hakeem.

Olajuwon is at best #11, and could be as low as #13.

Lebron also has a strong case over Bird, although I wouldn't take offense at those that rank Bird higher. IMHO, Bird's peak was SLIGHTLY better than LBJ's peak, but after that, Lebron hands down.

And then you have a guy understating his greatness like this....

[LAZERUSS]

And then you have a guy understating his greatness like this....

So, I have Hakeem at anywhere from 11th to 13th, and I am UNDER-ESTIMATING him????

Go ahead and give me YOUR list then...