The All-Choke Team

[Marv_Albert]

[COLOR="Red"]EPIC FAIL THREAD[/COLOR]

[04mzwach]

Lebron James recently

[DMAVS41]

Dirk is NOT comparable to fricking Kareem Abdul Jabbar, I don't care how much their careers seem to mirror each other. Just completely different players, with completely different resumes, and completely different sets of skills...

How you don't recognize these farcical comparisons as trolling is beyond me.

Also, I don't have the energy or care enough to compare Dirk to players from 50+ years ago. Did you watch Elgin Baylor play in the 60's? Did DMAVS watch him in 60's? to actually understand the complexity and details of game at the time, wouldn't that mean that you guys are like 50+ years old? I'm not going to base shit off of just stats and stories that I'm reading on the internet, without having watched every game (and I know you guys didn't watch every game either, so it's pointless IMO)

To not avoid the basic premise of the question though, the best comparison that comes to mind with Dirk is David Robinson, and yes I thought David choked in some of the biggest series he was in, maybe even worse than Dirk as a whole (but nothing worse than Dirk in 2007, and Robinson generally had worse teammates IMO). His "choking" label, however exaggerated (like Dirk's can be), generally was more warranted than unwarranted. That's how I felt about Dirk going into the 2011 season... Exaggerated at times, but warranted... Watching the way he played at times, I thought he played soft. Not all the time mind you, but enough for me to give him that label.

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Comparing Dirk to a 6-time MVP, 2-time Finals MVP in Kareem is laughable man. Kareem won a championship... his second season in the league!

Comparing them as "chokers", I have seen enough of Kareem to know it just aint true ain't a legit comparison.

Comparing multiple champion Shaq losing at 22 years old in his 3rd year in the league... to Dirk losing his 3rd first round in 4 years as a 30+ year old veteran?

Do you honestly find that an accurate comparison and fair questions? .... well, pass me what you're smoking man.

can't tell if you actually agree with his line of questioning, or if you're just going with it to go with it...

However fair you deem those questions, you siding with this tool is basically the equivalent of, say, me siding with that Sin Jackal character on something Spurs related... and that dude was full of shit and obsessed with his own rigid opinions just like DMAVS... and you latching on to one of their half-hearted and skewed arguments probably only because it's pro-Dirk is telling and weak coming from somebody who's been on this board from the beginning of it and doesn't need to be bolstered by a troll. better than that I thought... idk



"Never" give him credit? "Always" give him the blame? Now you're just reading what you want to read, and letting some kind of disliking of me cloud your perception of my posts. He's the best and most important player on the team, so naturally he's going to get most of the blame (factoring the way he plays as well, his lack of defensive enforcement, tendency to resort to jumpers in the past, and how bad his teams weren't) and get most of the credit in wins. That's basketball man, and he's not the first player to ever be criticized heavily... Are you trying to say he deserves none of the blame for any of the losses? Or deserves the least amount of blame for every lost series? I know what I think, interested in what you think, not interested in what DMAVS thinks at all. dude is a pure Dirk nut-hugger to the Nth degree.



"Always been a killer playoff performer"? I respectfully disagree on that, and disagree on him not playing better this season. Always been an elite scorer? yes, but it's not all about his points total that accurately describes his play (hence me saying, "go watch the games" in reference to last season, there's more to games than TS% and shit). He puts up 25-30 point games with regularity? yes, but so did losing players like Malone (etc), only a handful of times (particularly most of the 2006 run) have I felt that "killer" attitude to the extent Dirk exhibited in the 2010-2011 run. As mentioned, he played with more resolve, in instances where he (and his team) might have faltered before I felt like he stepped up, did the opposite, and lead by example. He might not be in his athletic prime anymore and able to play as many minutes, but his post up game was probably the best I've ever seen it, and his passing was noticeably crisp and efficient as well. Dirk was more guardable earlier in his career IMO, and it had less to do with a particular defender and more to do with him. Wasn't as savvy, wasn't as forceful, and as mentioned his low-post game was almost non-existant compared to now.

You are simply a biased Dirk hater. Stop calling me a Dirk homer for saying he's not now and should never have been labeled a choker.

Again, you simply refuse to hold other players to the same standards. You focus on Kareem of course. How about Barkley? How about Malone? How about Stockton? How about Shaq until he won? How about Hakeem until he won?

Do you realize that Hakeem did not win a title until his 10th year in the league?

Do you realize that I've listed example after example for even the greatest of the greats? Tim Duncan, by your standards, has choked many times and let the pressure get to him.

Jesus man, you go as far to say that Dirk choked in game 2 of the first round last year. That him going 1-7 to start the game was the pressure getting to him. Its absurd.

Sometimes players play poorly. I think you are confusing "clutch" with how good a player actually is.

Dirk isn't a top 10 player of all time. He's a top 20 player of all time. Dirk has faults in his game and has some black marks on his career that will ultimately prevent him from being in the bird/duncan/shaq/hakeem range as a player.

That is what you are talking about. And I agree with that. However, you are calling arguably the most clutch player of this era and one of the best playoff performers in the history of the game a choker.

Its absurd. And what is worse is that you seem to use a very limited sample of evidence to make your claims. You claim Dirk is not good with his back against the wall.....then when you are provided with evidence that shows he's actually one of the best ever you simply avoid it and say:

"watch the games"

Like I said before. Am I biased? Sure. I readily admit that. Although that doesn't make me wrong. You act like I'm saying Dirk is the 5th best player ever and the most clutch player ever.

I think Dirk is somewhere in the 15 to 20 range....as many many many others do with no bias at all....and i think Dirk is an all time great playoff performer and very clutch.

Are you biased? Sure. You don't admit it and you are taking the more absurd stance here.

Taking the stance that Dirk just all of a sudden this year became clutch is a joke and ignores so much evidence since 2003. But that is what you do best. Just ignore everything.

[Jordan23GOAT]

Chauncey is pretty dang clutch my man.